When I worked at the post office they sometimes showed us training films. I remember one they showed about ethics. The film showed a little skit with a window clerk and a customer, who clearly knew each other and were friendly. The customer mentions that his business is looking for summer help and that he is wondering if the clerk’s son might . . . .
“Stop right there.” the clerk says. “I can’t hear another word.”
“But it’s not . . .”
“Sorry, not another word” the clerk cuts him off, “the post office standards are very clear. Just hearing about a job offer creates the appearance of impropriety.”
Biden’s conduct with Ukrainia is indefensible. If he couldn’t stop his son from the taking that bullshit job, he himself should have had nothing further to do with that country.
Instead, he takes a page from the Trump playbook, jumping down the throat of a clearly nervous private citizen who misstates the question when he dares to question Joltin’ Joe.
Is this the election that we’re counting down to on this site? A contest between two corrupt, bullying assholes?
Why in the world shouldn’t a customer mention job he knows about to someone who might be interested? That’s how lots of jobs are found. This diary is a bogus hitjob!
It was a training film. I grew up just outside Washington DC. There was a time when federal hiring standards were VERY strict about nepotism and influence. The fact that lots of jobs are found through back-channels like this is true. That doesn’t make the practice ethical.
I worked at Digital Equipment Corporation from 1974 to 1982. Digital had a formal policy that no employee could accept ANY gift from any customer or business affiliate. No exceptions, no minimums. I think it’s a similar concept.
I agree with Bob that Mr. Biden should have recused himself from everything involving Ukraine while all this was going down. He did not. I also agree with Bob that if Mr. Biden had done that, we would not be having this exchange. I’m also quite sure that in that alternative universe there would have been some equally baseless and bogus attack vector that Donald Trump and his thugs would be pursuing.
On the other hand, I wonder if Bob watched the exchange (I posted the link elsewhere here). That was no “nervous private citizen”. It was GOP troll who repeated multiple GOP lies. Mr. Biden correctly called out his lies. A questioner who said repeatedly that he heard these lies “on MSNBC”. Wrong. It didn’t happen, the questioner was lying.
It’s about time that ignorant and lying trolls are called out for being what they are.
The postal worker wasn’t being given a gift nor was s/he in a position to hire someone. I can see how the other way around might be an issue, whereby the postal worker uses his/her federal position to get someone hired by Uncle Sam.
The customer was offering a job to the postal worker’s son. That’s a gift. Your reaction is why the training film was created — people sometimes have to be educated about what constitutes a “gift” and why.
If the CEO of Burisma had approached Joe Biden and offered Mr. Biden a lucrative no-show job for which Mr. Biden’s son was not qualified, then that would have been a clear attempt at bribery. If Mr. Biden had accepted such an offer, Mr. Biden would have been guilty of accepting a bribe.
That isn’t what happened. It is because that isn’t what happened that this entire meme is a despicable right-wing lie.
Yeah, that was a lapse of judgement on Biden’s part. Hunter Biden was getting between $50,000 and $100,000 a month for the position on board of Burisma, The New York Times ran an editorial in 2015 exposing everything except the amount of compensation:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/opinion/joe-biden-lectures-ukraine.html
This was a minor “dogs bark, caravan moves on” for Biden.
At the same time, Biden used his influence to strengthen anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine. In hindsight, the US should have also given Ukraine weapons to defend itself during the Obama administration. But hindsight is always 20/20.
It was two friends talking, one of whom happened to be a postal clerk on the clock at the moment. Would it be better in your mind if the customer had called the postal clerk at home after hours? It’s not as if the customer had an expectation of favorable treatment from the Post Office in exchange.
A federal employee doesn’t “happen to be on the clock”, just as member of the military doesn’t “happen to be in uniform”. A conversation that a federal employee has on their time is a different matter.
I’m pretty sure that conversations a teacher has with friends in the classroom are treated differently than the same conversations with the same friend at home.
Being on any job is different than being off the job. Spouses don’t kiss when they’re on the job. Members of the military, police, and fire firefighters have different constraints on their behavior while they’re in uniform. Federal standards at least used to be much more rigorous than private sector standards.
I guess I just can’t get worked up over something likely to have little practical distinction or consequence.
Whether you “get worked up” or not, the guidance about favoritism, nepotism, and corruption was very clear.
Federal employees on the job, military personnel in uniform, and teachers in a classroom are rightly held to a high standard. While Mr. Trump’s abuses dwarf the decisions of Mr. Biden, the impeachment case against Donald Trump would be much easier for the Democrats to make if the Vice President’s son had not been collecting lucrative compensation for a no-show job with one of the largest corrupt players in Ukraine while the Vice President was attempting to advance American policy to fight corruption in Ukraine.
Mr. Biden’s decision to not recuse himself is proving to be very costly to America today. The Party’s tone-deaf support of Mr. Biden hurts the Democratic Party in our crucial task of removing Mr. Trump from office — whether by impeachment, the 25th Amendment, or the 2020 election.
America and the Democratic Party would be well-served if Mr. Biden would step down “for personal reasons” and endorse one of the candidates who carries no comparable baggage.
So you are suggesting that our party once again concede to the noise because one of us isn’t perfect?:(
@ Are you suggesting…:
No.
I’m saying that Joe Biden’s decision to not recuse himself from matters involving Ukrainian corruption after learning of his son’s decision to accept a lucrative no-show job from one of the most likely targets of legitimate Ukrainian prosecutors is another example of his political tone-deafness.
His support of the illegal 2003 Iraq invasion is another. His long-time posture on the Hyde amendment is another. The refusal to investigate the prior administration for war crimes is another.
What you characterize as a candidate who “isn’t perfect” I characterize as a candidate who carries tons of political baggage.
When we have at least one stellar candidate with no baggage — Elizabeth Warren — I think it is foolishly self-destructive for us to nominate this heavily-encumbered alternative.
Um, the Iraqi invasion was MADE legal precisely because he and a majority of his colleagues supported AUMF (a vote we should have forgiven ages ago IMO). His position on Hyde I believe closely matches mine and I don’t think he was in a position to investigate the prior administration and I don’t recall much an appetite for it. You seem to be expecting Biden to have seen years into the future, predict where the base would be when he got around to being a frontrunner for the nomination, and behave accordingly. The things you have cited in my understanding has been well within the consensus and do not strike me as baggage at all.
@MADE legal:
I suppose we will again have to agree to disagree.
It was apparent at the time that the fusillade of “intelligence” that was used to sell the AUMF to Congress was based on lies.
Hypothetically speaking, if I steal a valuable piece of art, forge a bill-of-sale, and then sell you that stolen treasure, did my forgery of the bill-of-sale make the transaction legal? In that hypothetical scenario, is it incorrect to refer to the art as “illegally acquired”?
The prior administration defrauded Congress in selling the 2003 invasion — lies about vast stores of chemical weapons, lies about mobile missile launchers, lies about pretty much everything. Some of the current candidates saw through those lies and opposed the invasion. Others accepted them at face value.
Joe Biden supported the invasion. The invasion was illegal because it was premised on lies.
I have always disagreed with your position on abortion and the Hyde amendment.
Mr. Biden had at least as much opportunity to lobby the US Congress to investigate the war crimes of the prior administration as he did to lobby the government of Ukraine to more aggressively pursue Urkrainian corruption.
There was compelling evidence published by 2008 that the prior administration put in place policies of kidnapping, abuse, and torture. Those policies were ordered from the Oval Office. We had the documents, we had the transcripts, we had the names, ranks, and serial numbers. We had the Oval Office, a majority of the House, and a majority of the Senate. Barack Obama and Joe Biden chose to do nothing.
I expect the same of Joe Biden that I expect of every candidate for any office — that they uphold the values and priorities of the Democratic Party and me.
The Democratic Party that I have been a member of my entire life rejects racism. It rejects war crimes. It rejects war in favor of peace unless there is compelling evidence of a threat to national security. It celebrates freedom of choice and rejects government intrusion of ANY personal medical decision. It values opportunity for working-class and middle-class families above increased gains for the already-wealthy.
I’m glad that more of today’s Democratic Party is coming into alignment with my expectations. Joe Biden did not EVER meet my expectations.
I would not have supported his candidacy for President in 2008, 2012, or 2016 and I do not support his candidacy today.
The Democratic Party you describe also matches mine and Biden’s. Methinks thou dost protest too much! Your forgery on the bill of sale for the art doesn’t make your theft legal, but if you turn around and sell it to me without my knowledge of that provenance it does absolve me of any legal responsibility for the theft.
I’m not alleging that Joe Biden broke the law in voting for the Iraq invasion. I’m observing the invasion was, itself, illegal — just as the work of art is “stolen” the moment I steal it.
@ Joe Biden’s Democratic Party:
I supported forced school busing. Joe Biden opposed it. I wanted the Bush/Cheney administration investigated and prosecuted for war crimes. Joe Biden did not. I opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Joe Biden supported it. I have always fought for freedom of choice for women, Joe Biden supported draconian measures like the Hyde amendment until his current campaign. I opposed the 2005 legislation making bankruptcy unavailable so that predatory lenders could plunder struggling people even more voraciously. Joe Biden led and championed that legislation.
You suggested that I am expecting Joe Biden “to have seen years into the future, predict where the base would be when he got around to being a frontrunner for the nomination, and behave accordingly.”
I’m showing, in response, that I’ve been opposed to Mr. Biden and his brand of governance for pretty much as long as he’s been in office.
I have heard plenty to satisfy me that Biden rejects racism, defends choice, prefers peace to war, and is sympathetic to the plight of those preyed upon by banks. I have looked at his On The Issues and Vote Smart profiles, which seem to largely back me up.
I get that you come to a different answer from me. I’m only reminding you that my reaction to Mr. Biden is not new and I’m not expecting him to prescience about the Democratic electorate of 2020.
I am swayed more by what I see people do than by what they say and publish. My last employer had horrible and abusive tone-deaf management. It also had a marvelous “vision” statement, and entire glossy-printed brochure about our “Company Culture”, and webinars every month to talk about how much the company cared about its workers. All that fluff, and all so meaningless.
I support Ms. Warren, you support Mr. Biden. That’s why we have primaries.
The profiles I mentioned DO take into account actual record and rely a lot on interest group ratings. Biden has interest group ratings you would expect for mainstream or even progressive Dems.