I hate to sound like the sky is falling, but Democrats have to realize that Elizabeth Warren is in trouble. The Globe and Harvard today threw her under the bus!!!!! She needs to come clean, no matter how bad the truth, is it is not worse than the speculation. The Suffolk poll has some serious issues if you look beyond the 48-47% overall. In the poll, as people learn more about the NA issue….the less likely they are to vote for Warren. Elizabeth needs to come clean….before the Convention. Burying your head in the sand is not a solution!
Please share widely!
Looking at the breakdown of questions and the responses, this is what I see:
72% of respondents have heard of the story. Of those people, 72% think she told the truth or are undecided, 59% think she did not benefit by it or are undecided, and 73% think it is not significant or are undecided. In other words, all Republicans and a few unenrolled folks, who were never going to vote for Warren in the first place, see this as an issue, while the rest of the electorate either don’t care enough to form an opinion, or they don’t see it as an issue.
If you have a different take on these numbers, let’s hear it. Being that this appears to be your first post to BMG, I’d also like to know a little more about you – for example, what are your thoughts on the NA issue? Are you a Democratic voter or activist? What are your thoughts on the real issues in this campaign?
aren’t interested in facts, but I’m glad to know them anyway. LOL.
John — your comment here could almost be a diary in and of itself. It’s important everyone realize this is a non-story to the public, so the damn media will stop trying to make it into one. (While I don’t think this story is ‘hurting’ her, per say, it’s taking the entire campaign off message, so we aren’t as well able to drill down the fact that Scott Brown is bad for the middle class).
johnt001 – if your only response to factual posts is to insult and complain about free speech on this site then you are pathetic!!!!
Elizabeth Warren has real problems – pretending she doesn’t won’t change that fact. She could very well lose the primary to Marissa!!! I don’t think it is wise to diss DeFranco – you could need her as the nominee if it comes out that Elizabeth Warren lied about being an NA to get her job at Harvard. That would be UNFORGIVABE!!! (for those of us who believe in AA)!
And where did you post anything factual? You said that a deeper look inside the numbers showed trouble for Warren. I took that deeper look, and actually cited the internals, showing everyone here the real facts. A deeper look shows no problem at all, it shows that Republicans and Republican leaning unenrolled voters don’t support Warren, how exactly is that a problem?
If DeFranco wins the primary, she’ll have my full support – she’ll obviously be much better than Scott Brown. But at this point, in your struggle to point out Warren’s problems, you are reduced to your own “if” – if Warren lied, she’ll be in trouble. Well that sword cuts both ways, if she didn’t lie, she won’t be in trouble – furthermore, she’s not in trouble now, she’s actually doing remarkable well against an incumbent senator.
Lastly, I think you need to lay off the caffeine or whatever it is that has you so hyped up – you’re going to break your exclamation point key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bluemaxxxxxxxxxx x will remind us of how important DeFranco is.
And you’re the opposite of pathetic. Just to be clear.
Coming from you, that means a lot – and the punctuation was fun!
You are either painfully deluded or a direct relative/spouse to DeFranco, and probably both.
No, she very well could not beat Warren. Not a chance in hell.
The earth could split in two and Elizabeth Warren could find herself on the wrong side and Marisa still won’t be our nominee. Sorry, but it’s time for her to move on — or at least stop acting like Scott Brown.
… and I reject your unwarranted, indeed witless, assumption about my behaviour.
7 months is an eternity in politics and each and every poll taken 7 months out bears about as much resemblance to the only poll that truly counts, the one in November, as socks do to shoes: they are both worn on the feet, but only one will be certain to get you there in November.. .
At this point in 2008 Barack Obama was in an absolute dead heat with Hillary Clinton and, in hypothetical head to head matchups with John McCain never led outside the margin of error, a statistical dead heat. It was not until October that the polling began to resemble the ultimate result (a win by 8 percentage points…)
If I were a Scott Brown supporter, I’d be equally tempted to panic on his behalf: he’s not running the race as the incumbent. He acts exactly like the underdog he is… He’s still running as somebody trying to introduce himself to the electorate. A portion of this is circumstantial, given that he hasn’t enjoyed a full term, but a more confident Republican would spend time pretending such circumstances didn’t exist and ride the incumbency card to victory on sheer chutzpah: that Scott Brown doesn’t do this suggests a deeply felt lack of confidence.
For whatever reason both the Globe and the Herald have decided to push the native american kerfuffle as something more than the nothingburger with a side of racism that it is. One might be tempted to council EW to fight both SB and the Globe and the Herald… but that one would not be me: despite the diminishing import of newspapers, they still do purchase ink by the gallon and paper by the pound.
There is, also, the clear notion that EW already has come clean: what she has said is what has happened. How much more “coming clean” can she do? It is what it is.
I empathize with Elizabeth Warren. I was brought up in a family where we were told that my father’s father had some native american ancestry and it almost became justification for my grandmother not to marry my grandfather. If it was demanded of me to prove this, I could not prove that my father had said this at various times while I was growing up and as he is no longer on the mortal coil, I have neither the ability nor the resource to prove this.
As such, I accept it for what it is, but there is no physical documentation to back it up. Given the way in which the Trail of Tears occurred, I doubt if any physical documentation would exist that would ever satisfy these right wing bigots/extremists. If anything, I believe they, “Brown et al” should crawl back under the slime covered rock he crawled out from in disgrace for making this an issue.
anywhere during her time at Harvard she is sunk
..then Brown is sunk.
No, she claims she didn’t know she was listed as a minority. If she is shown somewhere recognizing that claim then she lied and she’s done.
This is what Scott Brown has now been reduced to:
Forget about jobs, the economy, to Scott Brown this race is about EEOC filings. Please, anyone, how does this not make him look like a blockhead. Anyone?
Please stop speaking for other voters, especially when the polls do not back you up.
If this story was going to be the end of her, she’d have been ended by now. That’s not what’s happening.
“Among the 72% of Massachusetts voters who have heard something about this controversy, Warren’s image is mixed – 43% favorable – 39% unfavorable, while those who haven’t heard about it are quite positive – 40% favorable – 18% unfavorable.”
As the Globe and other media follow up on this federal reporting angle (and believe me the FOIA/public record requests are flying right now), her favorability rating will fall.
Now is the time to consider Ms. DeFranco!!! Don’t tell me she doesn’t have the money-Elizabeth Warren could simply transfer her campaign account to her!
I’m sick of these candidates weaseling around. Does Marisa want to win or not?
Demand that she release all her confidential employment records from Harvard. If she checked off that she’s a minority in the past decade then she lied when she claimed she didn’t know and she’s out. Simple as that.
I guess you were really banking on this one, huh. You guys have been all over 3 different posts complaining. Very entertaining.
n/t
demanding that everyone immediately release confidential this and that, right away, or else…
Not like the republicans of old, who just broke in at night and stole it.
DeFranco supporters. I didn’t know we needed one.
Comments like this are a great way to bring down audience share and ensure that you’re comfortably ensconced in a rah-rah echo chamber. What’s gained by telling folks who are ultimately on your side that you have a catalog of reasons for disliking them? I’ve made no bones about my support, and its waxing and waning, for Ms deFranco, and my reasons for anxiety about Ms Warren have zilch to do with BS like the Brown attacks, but I’ve never once denigrated her supporters (nor her personally–it’s a few positions I quarrel with. My own stances are hardly those of Senator Brown and his dogs!
So that when y’all accuse MDF of being “ungracious,” then waste space on letting us know just how adamantly you dislike us (I object to the monolithic characterization as well), I really have to wonder about your own objectivity and ability to engage in civil discourse. There’s been a lot of name-calling around this not-yet-a-primary, on both sides, and I really don’t get it. My initial support for MDF, flagging as it has been, and my reasons for the same, are just as freaking as honorable as are yours.
Hell, I haven’t even bothered defending MDF’s latest line. So what gives here?
I might be the person who introduced the word into the conversation.
Interview with Keller showed remarkable lack of graciousness.
So does the tart dismissal.
Not denying that! And that point’s been made.
I’m just not sure why so many epithets are being cast my way (not directly, but @ “MDF supporters”) simply because a candidate insists on running for for an elected office, adhering to a staunchly progressive platform, rather than caving. I’m half surprised no one’s thrown “moonbats” our way.
Doesn’t matter, really, on a personal level, but there seems to be an AWFUL lot of bitterness on both sides. It’s possible, MDF supporters, to be cheerful losers, and not leave off muttering darkly about the collapse of democracy; and on teh other hand, I’d think that EW supporters would be more than cheered by the numbers and money and spirit they have on their side, not bitter over not having 100% unqualified support and spending an inordinate amount of time turning this place into an abbatoir. Your candidate is going to win the nomination–why simply piss off and denigrate your fellow Democrats?
I don’t think anyone is objecting to Ms. DeFranco’s campaigning “simply because she’s running for an elected office” or because she is “staunchly progressive”. There aren’t a ton of moderate Democrats on this site, and they’re not all attacking Ms. DeFranco for an excess of staunchness. Rather it is the reliable progressives who have lined up behind Ms. Warren.
*
There are two questions:
1. Whom do we prefer to become our Senate candidate?
2. Even if we prefer Ms. Warren, would we see a benefit in having a primary contest with Ms. DeFranco for vetting, issue clarifying, or voter education?
To the first question, BMG tilts heavily toward Warren.
To the second, the answer depends on whether DeFranco can help clarify issues or educate voters through her issue advocacy. Will she stick to trying to erode the goodwill Ms. Warren has gained? Consequently we focus on Ms. DeFranco’s tone. That’s why I find ungraciousness particularly disturbing. That’s why I don’t like the accusations that Ms. Warren is insufficiently progressive because they seem based upon the slenderest evidence or on issues not particularly germane to this campaign.
Ultimately, we want to replace Scott Brown with a Democrat. A primary could help that or hinder it. And that depends a lot on the contestants.
I’ve SEEN a good primary challenge. Hell, I’ve seen a few really GREAT primary challenges!
This, my friends, is no great primary challenge. It’s more like sullen whining about not getting a seat at the table that has not been earned, than a good primary challenge.
Again, I’ve been concerned about the tone since the fall, and nothing I’ve seen has helped perception that one whit. (It’s nice to know that my powers of political perception are still pretty good.)
kbusch, once again, your comments are erudite and to the point, I can’t agree enough with it.
…have an unfavorable opinion of Warren due to the heritage issue. Well, 39% of 72% is roughly 28% of the entire population polled – like I said above, these are Republicans and Republican leaning unenrolled folks who would never have voted for Warren in the first place!
Bluemaxxx, you’re either a DeFranco troll or a right-wing troll – in either case, you’re still a troll. Do the world a favor and crawl back under your bridge…
…
Now, I’m done considering Ms. DeFranco. Is there something else I can do for you?
.
Ms. DeFranco’s decision to run a completely ungracious campaign seems especially designed to persuade Ms. Warren to turn over any excess campaign cash to Claire McCaskell or Tammy Baldwin where it might actually do some good.
campaign strategy
get out there and work for this candidate. She did nothing wrong. Maybe to settle this a DNA test will be done but believe me there will still be recriminations. She didn’t act fast enough, she should have fought back, etc., etc. So roll up your collective sleeves and get involved. Looking at that poll again only 9% was from Suffolk County while 32% was from the SE and Cape. This is not a survey of her strongest enclaves while it is for Scott Brown.
Gosh, I hope that doesn’t happen. Diversity is not about the staff’s DNA, it is about the various cultural perspectives they bring, the lives they have led, their family and community they are a part of, the way they are perceived by others and the way they think of themselves. Being a minority is not about having some genetic markers that identify a race, the idea of genetically distinct races was rightly rejected last century.
check him for ticks
Just so everyone is clear, the above poster, dont-get-cute, was caught the other day doing a copy and paste job on a diary from Rob Eno at redmassgroup.com. The diary concerned an accusation of plagiarism against Elizabeth Warren, so it was quite the moment of right wing hypocrisy. When confronted by the facts, he/she tried to pass it off as a joke, but I think it really illustrates the right-wing mindset, plagiarizing a post about plagiarism without seeing even a hint of irony.
Further, a few days later, he/she posted a comment about Warren at the debates, opening by saying “How, may name is Elizabeth Warren. I and several other posters are of the opinion that DGC should be banned from this forum for being a plagiarizing racist, and we’ve made our feelings known. Until that happens, I plan to haunt his/her posts, calling him/her out as a plagiarist and a racist until he/she is either banned or leaves of his/her own volition. This web site would be a much better place if DGC is no longer “contributing”, IMHO.
I talked to my staff and told them not to do it again.
As to my contribution, I think the above comment is a good example of my contributions – it is an original and important point.
And I apologized for offending Native Americans.
I assume the joke about having a staff is not original.
I’m tellin’ ya – it’s Scotty
Kinda sounds like Mitt’s non-apology for assaulting a fellow student.
You know, pretending to sort of apologize but admitting nothing and showing no remorse.
And your apology for your racist claptrap isn’t worth the memory required to store it in the BMG database.
even if she is Indian, she’s not Indian enough.
Where have I heard this one before?
our latest conservative sock puppet has a point about the heritage question. It may end up damaging Warren. Something funny went on with Harvard’s listing, and it’s going to come out. It won’t have anything to do with how Warren will vote as a senator, but may affect her candidacy.
With that said, Bluemaxxx spells like a porn site and seems like a conservative trying to stir up another thread on Warren. I swear, eveyday BMG is getting closer to becoming Purple Mass Group.
is a total insult to Brian Daley and his really good trilogy.
Please, please, please do a check on IP addresses and look for patterns in the “email” addresses of recent additions to this site – I honestly think this invasion is being perpetrated by one or maybe two people tops.
Let’s not let this forum become overrun by lame. This is the point in my blog where I start the finger hovering over the “ban” button, so to speak. (Sometimes, an IP block works nicely.)
My argument is that my blog is not a democracy, I own the domain, and if it comes to the point where I stop enjoying my own blog due to the harassment of some commenters, I start deleting them.
I don’t know if conservatives actually outnumber liberals, but it certainly feels that way. Part of the problem is the campaign. Dwelling on every move Scott Brown makes brings them out.
I may be in the minority, but I value the contributions of Central Mass Dad and much of Merrimack Guy, JohnD, Seascraper, and even Don’t Get Cute. For me, value comes from how much their comments constructively challenge my thinking. The jury’s out on DanfromWaltham, who often sounds like a college kid with too much time on his hands.
As an antidote to close mindedness, liberals should probably seek out conservatives whom they respect. That means one should avoid, say, Krauthammer or Hannity because they are difficult to read without derision welling in one’s gut. Derision just confirms one’s biases.
I suggest David Frum, Ross Douthat, Bruce Bartlett, and maybe American Conservative.
At one point, BMG did get contributions from some really abrasive but remarkably substantive conservatives (Gary, for example), but they have disappeared.
I received the following email from the campaign today:
I don’t know what else people want. I’ve even heard Democrats say she should call a press conference on this, but I think that just legitimizes and further distracts.
Or Dr. Bronner. Great soap.
is panic?
All righty then.
But if thou cannot help yourself, at least try to avoid the flea-market kind where one learns that 2,120 (Q19) out of 1,430 patients (Q18) take the less charitable view of
(( HireWatha’s Daughter ))
Speaking of “quality control,”
That precious treasure will probably have been disappeared by the time *you* wake up. Such things have happened before, but they vanish away with the dew andthe bloom on the MGR, “Mornin’-Glory Reformers.” Count Dracula and I can assure you, however, that it was still around to be linked to as recently as 05/26/2012 07:38.
Happy days. And furthermore, merry moons.
___
[0] Allow me to recommend plagiarist.com (¡small world!) where you can check up on badguys like Paddy and Eye who ‘borrow’ othervolks’ “intellectual property:”
Thou shalt not answer questionnaires
Or quizzes upon World-Affairs,
Nor with compliance
Take any test. Thou shalt not sit
With statisticians nor commit
A social science.
[1] As occasionally happens, what superficially appears to be only yard-sale-worthy verbal bric-à-brac *could* be Dean Swift (d.b.a. “Charlie Chan”) making serious criticisms of the way the affairs of certain New Iceland political websites are conducted.
One cannot actually deny (¿Can one?) that “a obvious comprehending of the subject you must be creating about” might come in pretty handy from time to time.
Best of all, should the Blue Blazers occupy most of the foreground of one’s mental landscape, is the following advice:
The Blue Class Group is chockful of Classmates like that. Chockfuller than almost anywhere.
It occurs to Eye that even the grave-bearded Social Scientisers of Suffolk could in principle be engaged in subtly swiftspoofing
the unwary.
“Obviously,” jested the Pilot, “Those (2120-1430=) seven hundred goodvolks who know what they think about a matter of which they are, by their own scientistically processed account, ‘unaware’ will have given a proxy to Dr. Limbaugh, or to Jefferson Davis Freelord Katz, or perhaps to His Grace, Duchess Jaysonne of Sanseverino-Wellesley, to know for them.”
“¿Next question?”
But with e-trash that does not guarantee that you won’t be seeing it again.
In fact, “Charlie Chan” lives on chez Paddy McTammany, who have the bad taste to find her performance interesting in a variety of ways. Most of these the nobility and gentry are not likely to be interested in. For example, “¿In what language was this pious bologna originally thought, as opposed to eventually keyboarded?”
Questions more sociological than literary may appeal a little, though. If nothing else, the Blue Blazers ought to be proud to attract such a high class of parasites. Whether the Funders of Fratboy have the same problem, I have no idea, but if perchance they do, betcha it’s more like autoparts an’ aphrodisiacs than “time-period papers.”
Happy days.