According to an email sent to me by the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center, “Massachusetts becomes first state with majority college educated workforce”. The email brags about the fact that “Massachusetts and New Jersey have the two best-educated workforces and the two highest median wage levels in the United States. Nationwide. It also reports that “Expanding educational opportunity can help a lot of young people and strengthen our economy, but it won’t by itself ensure that economic growth leads to rising wages for working people.” It ends with the statement that “By 2016, the median wage for Massachusetts workers with a college degree was twice that of workers with no more than a high school diploma.” (emphasis mine) .
In the boilerplate section of the email, it reads: The Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center (MassBudget) produces policy research, analysis, and data-driven recommendations focused on improving the lives of low- and middle-income children and adults, strengthening our state’s economy, and enhancing the quality of life in Massachusetts.
I am puzzled.
If Mass Budget is focused on improving the lives of low- and middle-income adults – why all the emphasis on a college degree? Is the message here that we need to reach a population where 100% of the population is college educated? Is this how we get to a commonwealth where grocery clerks, hotel housekeepers, department store cashiers, car maintenance techs, restaurant dishwashers and so many members of our working class will live a better life because there is a college diploma (and the associated debt) hanging on their wall?
Your question answers itself, to some extent. If you’re college-educated, you probably don’t need those jobs that you list.
In any event, community college and skilled-trade training ought to be a big part of bringing people into the middle class. They’ve been doing that for generations.
… None of which is a substitute for a legislated living wage, absolutely universal health care, unionization, and other protections for all workers.
I don’t see the need to play these things off each other.
So we continue to tell people to reach for the ceiling while ignoring the floor. How much longer will it be until dishwashers, cashiers, clerks and the rest will no longer be able to afford to live in Massachusetts?
I am in favor of health care as a right. I am not a supporter of unions as they have existed in our past – too adversarial and a history of corruption that is difficult to overcome. What I prefer is a tax/labor code that encourages profit sharing and employee retention as well as employee owned enterprises.
I am also not comfortable with the term “middle class” as it accepts a “lower class” of Americans as a requirement, We are “working class” and we are the “wealthy class” or the rentiers, or rent seekers or 1%……(would be nice to have a single term for it….)
I don’t see a Democratic Party that is interested in the welfare of those without a college degree.
You ask the apparently rhetorical question (emphasis mine):
The piece you cited in your thread-starter contains these (emphasis mine):
I understand that you hate the answer, and loudly oppose all effort to fund education and training programs for our least affluent residents. Nevertheless, I suggest that your own quote answers your question.
The reason for “all the emphasis on a college degree” is that the data shows that those with a college degree have twice the median wage than those without.
Your opposition to these education and training programs strives to continue the oppression of our least affluent residents — by destroying the most obvious ladder our society provides for allowing them to climb out of a life of abject poverty.
As our editor has observed, the people with the college degrees are less likely to require the jobs you list (other than as transient work while in school or between other jobs). A consequence of that is that the smaller number of workers without college degrees (or other training) reduces the size of the unskilled labor pool and therefore tends to provide additional upward pressure on wages (reduced labor supply tends to push wages upwards).
MassBudget is, in fact, doing exactly what its charter says it should do “produces policy research, analysis, and data-driven recommendations focused on improving the lives of low- and middle-income children and adults, strengthening our state’s economy, and enhancing the quality of life in Massachusetts.”
Expanding educational opportunities for low- and middle-income children and adults is the best and most immediate way to improve their lives, strengthen our state’s economy, and enhance the quality of life in Massachusetts.
The thing that puzzles me is why you, who claim to be supportive of low- and middle-income children and adults, so loudly oppose this.
I can’t argue with your post, primarily because you have taken objection to statements and positions that I do not have and have not said. I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many straw men in one post.
Perhaps you prefer to avoid facing simple facts.
Strawmen? The title of your post makes your opposition towards programs like this crystal-clear.
You ask multiple ridiculous “questions” in your final paragraph. Perhaps we can just dismiss them, one by one:
Q1. “Is the message here that we need to reach a population where 100% of the population is college educated?”
A1: No.
Q2: Is this how we get to a commonwealth where grocery clerks, hotel housekeepers, department store cashiers, car maintenance techs, restaurant dishwashers and so many members of our working class will live a better life because there is a college diploma (and the associated debt) hanging on their wall?
A2: No.
Grocery clerks, hotel housekeepers, department store cashiers, car maintenance techs (assuming you mean carwash attendants, as opposed to skilled mechanics) and restaurant dishwashers who are able to get a college diploma will be able to leave those jobs in pursue better paying careers after graduation.
Other members of our working class will be able to live a better life because they will be able to get higher-paying jobs after getting a college diploma.
The facts are simple. So simple that it is hard to fathom your persistent opposition to these programs.
Tom, as you know, the money has to come from somewhere. How do you propose we get the money to live in Massachusetts supplied to hotel housekeepers. food market clerks, gas station attendants, dry cleaner cashiers, donut shop window people, and the long list of jobs that we all need to make our days possible, efficient, and enjoyable?
Do we send them all to college where they will all magically get better paying jobs and if so, who fills the void they leave?
I think this is unfair, undemocratic, immoral and the source of many of our social ills. Are you in support of this?
Oh, please.
I’ve already said, in multiple places, where we get the money: we significantly raise taxes on the wealthy. You know that I’ve written that, you’ve up-voted the comments and posts.
I agree that those who are unable to go to college have a much harder time in life. By construction, there will ALWAYS be people on the low extreme of a wealth or income distribution. Unless you propose to somehow make everybody have exactly the same wealth or income, that is always going to be true.
It is similarly true that those on the low extreme will lead a much harder life than those on the high extreme. Unfair? Probably. Undemocratic? I actually think it’s a unfortunate consequence of democracy — the only way to avoid it is absolute economic tyranny. Immoral? Depends on your moral framework. The source of many of our social ills? Absolutely.
If a building is on fire, a hundred children are trapped, and we can only save twenty, you demand that we let them all burn to death because we can’t save them all.
We have an at-risk population, and we have a straightforward way to resolve the risk for a portion of that population. You oppose doing so.
I think that no working-class man, woman, boy, or girl who is otherwise able to attend and graduate from college should be unable to do so because of expense (their race, gender, religion, gender preference, and so on should also not be a barrier to them).
So you favor a two tired America, the well to do college educated and the poor downtrodden masses without the diploma….
No wonder so many working class voters went for Trump.
So you favor murdering children by fire because you can’t save them all.
Pure horseshit, John .
I support working class Americans with AND without college diplomas….and if the current party leadership did, we would NOT have Republican in the corner office on Beacon Hill or Trump in the Oval Office.
It’s your choice. You can side with ONLY college educated working class people and Wall Street funding (yeah, the money HAS to come from somewhere,,,,,) Of you can stand for ALL the members of the working class and NOT denigrate those without a college diploma. But you seem to enjoy denigrating people, as you denigrate me at every opportunity.
But hey, blame the “misogynists and racists and bigots” for Trump…..and watch as he marches into a second term.
Wanting to rescue those who can be rescued is not siding “with ONLY college educated working class people and Wall Street funding”.
You again ignore that I just told you how to pay for it. You prefer to lie about me.
I’m not going to remain silent while you relentlessly repeat right-wing lies about the working class while pretending that you support them.
Because a diploma is magic, John. You thought you were being cheeky when you titled this post, but you were, in fact, spot on: diplomas are magic. Education is as near as we have to an absolute good. Having a diploma represents effort and increases worth and makes the bearers life exponentially richer and fuller and the more people have college diplomas the richer and fuller the entire CommonWealth and, indeed, the republic itself.
Nobody aspires to washing dishes or scrubbing toilets as a career. Those who are doing so this very minute are doing so in the hopes of getting a degree and a better job. And they have both a path and permission to do so from the Democrats. Historically, people have deliberately stood in the way of this will to self improve and have used others lack of an education to tighten their grip on the power and the economics and have kept the people at their dishwashing or toilet scrubbing, or whatever. The Democrats are deliberately and forcefully saying no to this. But you’ve been told this before… and you have yet to attend.
Education is a good thing. You should get you some.
I assume you have dined out at a restaurant and used public restrooms? Is it your position that the people who make this possible for you ought not be paid a wage that will allow them to live a basic, enjoyable life, support a family and save for a rainy day and/or retirement? Is it your opinion that the labor they supply to make your life more enjoyable is of so little worth that they ought to live in shame and poverty?
Empathy and humility are good things. You should get you some.
Right, because that’s exactly the choice. Every last waitstaff is a solo earner, supporting an entire family, and without hope of retirement or even fun. It’s either rags or riches with you, and nothing in between .
My education taught me what ‘manichean’ means. You should get you some education so’s you can know too…
Your elitism is killing the Democratic Party’s chance to regain the trust of working class Americans.
uh, what?
I’m the one in this.. uh, argument (?)… who wants to give away education to everyone without condition which, by definition, makes me anti-elitist. Derp.
Okay, and what, pray tell, is the purpose of the education you want to give away? Self enlightenment? And there is this: hypothetically, if every citizen in Massachusetts had a PhD in Neuroscience, who’s going to clean the public toilets and run the dishwashers at L’Espalier?
It appears that you want everyone to be………like you! And anyone not like you is not worthy of a decent wage because their jobs did not require a college degree and are ….to quote Tom from Somerville….”a lifetime of misery”
The purpose is to enable the recipient to double their likely wages.
But you don’t care about that.
So you think it’s fair that a college diploma gives one citizen double the wages of one without?
@fair that a college diploma doubles wages: Is it “fair” that right-handed people have a wider selection of goods available for them than left-handed people? Is it “fair” that acceleration of gravity is not half of what it is?
It is a FACT. A college diploma has always been enabled higher wages. Whether fair or not, it’s a reality that we must deal with.
I think that means that we need to provide assistance and a safety net for those who cannot get a college diploma, I think that’s one reason for a UBI (and I’ve said that repeatedly here).
I think that means that we need to increase the minimum wage — I’d make it $15/hr immediately and push it to $22/hr in the seven-year timeframe (a dollar a year). I’d like to see those changes at the both the federal and state level.
Those are things that benefit working-class people who cannot get a college degree.
IN ADDITION, I think we should ensure that no resident who could otherwise attend and graduate from college is blocked because of the cost of college.
That’s what I think.
Someone with a Ph.D in Neuroscience. Although, I suspect, somebody with a Sc.D in Robotics is going to build a robot to do it, before we get to that point.
‘
And, to think… just a few posts ago, you called me an elitist…
(which, by definition, is someone who believe nobody else should, or even could, be like them…. You’re going to get yourself some whiplash, there, going from extreme to extreme so quickly. Take a stop in the in-between spaces, whydoncha?)
There is a difference between ‘wanting everyone to be like me’ and the (anti-elitist) notion that I’m nothing particularly special and therefore neither more nor less entitled to the excellent education I have had than anyone else.
And, having been engaged in that excellent education alongside many others, I can attest that evidence suggests with a very high degree of confidence that education isn’t guaranteed to produce anything like me or you. Education enables you to be you. Which is the point. Derp.
The Democratic Party has to return to becoming the party of the working class, not just the college educated working class, don’t you agree?
You and Tom from Somerville are told that working class people are not making enough money in wages, and your only suggestion to them is to go to college.
That’s not going to win an election.
And for what its worth, something that Bernie Sanders had all wrong.
Finally, there was ONE speech given by Hillary during her campaign where she said that we have to see to it that a high school education is enough to support a family. Had she stayed with that on her campaign along with health care as a right, she’d be in the White House today.
“You and Tom from Somerville are told that working class people are not making enough money in wages, and your only suggestion to them is to go to college.”
Again you lie about what I’ve said.
Making college accessible to working class people is just one straightforward way to improve life for those who are able to attend and graduate.
I’ve said that I support a UBI. I’ve said that I support increasing the minimum wage. I’ve said that I support imposing significant tax increases on the very wealthy, in order to return that excess wealth the economy where it can benefit everybody.
All those things are things that help working class people besides making college and training available to them.
Please stop lying about me.
Tom, it’s not a lie. It’s the same as your acceptance of Wall Street money. You said it. You said the money has to come from somewhere. You called a job that does not require a college education “a lifetime of misery”.
Until you agree that we MUST not take big money from Wall Street and we MUST make it so that ALL working class citizens, not just those with a college education can live a happy life in the USA, I will continue to call you out.
You can’t cozy up to Wall Street and be taken seriously about UBI, higher taxes, and higher wages. You can’t denigrate working class people as “misogynists, bigots, and racists” because they voted for Trump.
Take one side or the other. Be the rabid Clinton supporter that you are, or be a defender of the working class.
Please stop lying about me.
That’s not what he said at all. Why do you not seem to understand that paying everyone a living wage and promoting opportunities for everyone to advance themselves are NOT mutually exclusive concepts?
I went ahead and uprated for the rest of the comment, but it could have done without the final sentence.
President Clinton’s first choice for attorney general was Zoë Baird, a well connected corporate lawyer married to a law professor at Yale.
Between the two of them, they made over $650K a year, or $156.25 per hour per person in working class terms.
Still, they saw fit to hire two undocumented immigrants as their domestic servants and paid them each a little more than $250 a week, or $6.25 per hour in working class terms.
Because she and her husband failed to pay Social Security and so forth, Republicans were able to shoot down her nomination.
But where were Democrats during this “Teachable Moment”?
Tom from Somerville, Petr and others see nothing wrong in this and would urge these servants to attend community college and “improve themselves’ because “no one really wants to be a maid, housekeeper, or handyman”.
How can Democrats rail against massive CEO wages and Wall Street Oligarchs when we ourselves see nothing wrong in excess and greed when it’s one of our own?
Zoë Baird’s nomination should have been shot down by DEMOCRATS for her failure to respect working class Americans, but sadly, we do not, we just tell them it is their fault and they need to go to college.
Take this rubbish back to ditto-head land, where it belongs.
Ah, the Wall Street sellout is angry because I support working class Americans.
I object to your desire to ruin their lives by blocking their ability to get an education.
I object to your insistence that once they start working a cash register for Dunkin Donuts, they stay there forever.
Your commentary is most emphatically NOT supporting working class Americans.
You are instead condemning large numbers of them to a lifetime of preventable misery.
There is nothing wrong with working as a retail clerk, Some people find enjoyment in such things. I do. I work with many others who do. None of us have our sheepskins on our office walls but we enjoy ourselves.
Again, your position that life worth living is only obtainable with a college degree and anything less is “a lifetime of misery” is troubling. You have no admiration or understanding of people who enjoy a life in positions you view as “unworthy”.
If you are an example of the modern mindset of the Democratic Party, we’re toast. And it’s no wonder so many working class people voted for Trump.
They voted for Trump NOT because (as you insist) they are bigots, misogynists, racist.. They voted for Trump because Democrats like you look down on them, seem them as ignorant rubes, and offer no assistance for them unless they attain the same scholastic level that you have attained.
Tom still does not get why Trump won the election.))) It’s because those of us who voted for Trump are racists, fascists, misogynists, etc. LOL. I suggest that Tom actually talk with some of us from the working class instead of continually patting himself on the back, like a typical liberal doofus; instead of crying :Nazi or Racist everytime someone disagrees with him.
And you apparently join Mr. Trump in saying that the mob carrying swastikas and torches that Saturday night in Charlottesville are fine people.
I think that people who carry torches and swastikas mobs ARE Nazis. That’s what the swastika means.
Meanwhile, you apparently join our resident ditto-head in opposing the expansion of education and training opportunities for working-class people.
Whatever it is you think you are doing, such opposition is doing active harm to working-class men, women, boys, and girls who could attend college and graduate if they could only afford it.
I’ll continue to remind you of that while you twist your arm out of joint patting yourself on the back for your “support” for working class people.
It looks like you forgot the data in your thread-starter that you don’t like to admit:
Those who choose (or are forced to, under your regime) spend their lives working as a retail clerk are likely to earn HALF as much as those who get a college degree.
You are choosing to condemn huge swaths of those you claim to support to a lifetime of earning HALF of what they could otherwise get.
With “friends” like you, they don’t need enemies.