Yes, statues of Confederate generals are offensive to many. Yes, many were erected in the days of Jim Crow. Yes, we support the towns and communities that are taking a look at these statues (and streets, and towns, and schools, and parks, and…) all named after Confederates. Let’s leave it at that. Let’s leave it to them. We have bigger fish to fry and frankly, this is a topic that many people are uncomfortable with and would be happy to avoid. Yes, I am talking about white working class voters who voted for Trump (or voted against Clinton), voters that we desperately need to win over and we are NOT going to win them over by calling them racists because they have fond memories of watching The Dukes of Hazzard. They think these monuments are all a part of history and ought not be taken down. Fine. They are wrong but calling them wrong and racist is NOT going to win them over.
Democrats, let this one go. Move onto kitchen table economic issues. This is not one of them. This just galvanizes Trump’s base, makes us look as if we are against free speech, and puts a lot of working class Americans “up for grabs”, which means, voting for Republicans.
Democrats, let this one go for now. In time, those local communities will do the right thing. This can’t be our fight. We will lose this fight.
Ah. Right. Who cares about the Nazis.
I have a college degree. A BA in History. I can assure you Tom that the Nazis had no involvement with the Confederacy.
But hey, tell some guy in Tennessee with a great grandfather who fought in the Civil War on the losing side that he and his ilk are no different from Hitler and the men who ran the concentration camps ….and watch as they flock to the polls on election day to vote for your candidate.
Fair point, I think, Short term, Trump’s response was so bad that we had to extend that and make sure everyone knew about it. But our platitudes, while sometimes important, only go so far.
I think “Winning these voters over” is the wrong approach though. We have to gain power in the next election, demonstrate that government can work, make it clear that we stand for justice for all, and people will come to us. We can’t really win anyone over, we just offer a choice.
We can’t win the next election without a number of people who previously voted for Trump (and Baker and Scott Brown). That’s just math.
Horsefeathers.
The math is that Donald Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, and won the electoral college by a narrow margin (46th of 58 elections).
You forget that Mr. Brown lost to Ms. Warren by a comfortable 8% margin. You forget that Ms. Clinton carried MA by a by a landslide. You are lying about the Massachusetts electorate. But you know that, don’t you.
We can win the 2020 election if collaborators who thought they could ignore the flagrant racism, misogyny, bigotry, corruption, incompetence, and fundamental pathology of Donald Trump see and change the error of their misguided ways.
We can win the 2020 election if, for example, the blacks and minorities in WI, MI, and PA who turned out for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012, and stayed home in 2016, turn out for our nominee in 2020.
We can win the 2020 election if we HAVE a 2020 election — if Mr. Trump hasn’t caused a nuclear holocaust or declared martial law and suspended elections before then.
Do you think all 36 million Trump voters are “collaborators who thought they could ignore the flagrant racism, misogyny, bigotry, corruption, incompetence, and fundamental pathology of Donald Trump” because if you do, your proving John’s point. Of course this is a racist element to the Trump message and 1 American Nazi is one to many. But you can’t paint broad (ugly) brushes about 1/2 the country and expect to win elections. Yes, we need to speak out against Trump’s racism and have no tolerance to Nazis or white supremacist. But knee-jerk condemnation of all Trump voters is plain foolish.
Did I say or write “all”?
I was responding to this comment:
That’s just flatly and misleadingly false. The 2016 election was determined by a razor-thin margin of votes in WI, PA, and MI. In each of those states, a SIGNIFICANT number of minority and black voters did not turn out for Hillary Clinton in 2016 the way they did for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012.
Those are not people who “previously voted for Trump”. I submit that absolutely NONE of the people who voted for Scott Brown (at least in MA) and Charlie Baker had any effect AT ALL.
The outright lie that I’m refuting is the implication that we have to attract people who previously voted for Donald Trump (“and Baker and Scott Brown”). We do not. We don’t need ANY Baker or Brown voters. We are likely to get “a number of people who previously voted for Trump” by remaining faithful to our values and principles.
SOME of those 36 million people who voted for Donald Trump are already regretting their vote. Many of those are as appalled by his flagrant pandering to Nazis and white supremacists as we are. Those former Donald Trump voters will respect, not reject, our strong stance against such vile groups.
SOME of those 36 million people who voted for Donald Trump ARE collaborators (and deplorables). Some. Not all. SOME. I suggest that there is no place in our party for those collaborators and deplorables. Not all. SOME.
We agree that we need to “speak out against Trump’s racism and have no tolerance to Nazis or white supremacist.” That’s all I’m proposing.
I made no condemnation of ALL Donald Trump voters, knee-jerk or otherwise.
If I voted for trump because I was tired of the status quo and then I read your paragraph:
I would assume you were calling me a collaborator and I would stop listening to you. I was responding to this paragraph and not your paragraph about Baler and Scott Brown.
Well, I’m not sure what to say. This is a blog, and on a blog people respond to comments. A response to a comment is meaningless when ripped out of context.
I grant you that if you voted for Mr. Trump, you were already so accustomed to reading “quotes” ripped out of context (and their meaning turned on its ear by doing so) that you perhaps don’t even notice such things.
Nevertheless, I encourage you to actually look at and read the prior comments in the thread.
Let me ask this provocative question. How could you watch the bus tape and not know that Mr. Trump is a misogynist? How could you watch the coverage of Trump University and not know that Mr. Trump is a liar and a fraud? How could you listen to his condemnation of the judge in that case and not know that Mr. Trump is a bigot?
How did ANYONE vote for Mr. Trump and not “ignore the flagrant racism, misogyny, bigotry, corruption, incompetence, and fundamental pathology” of the man?
I suggest that virtually EVERY Donald Trump voter knew of these things. So it sounds to me as though the objection is to my characterization of such voters.
Not every Donald Trump voter is a racist, misogynist, bigot, or fraud. I don’t see how you avoid admitting that virtually every Donald Trump voter ignored compelling evidence that Mr. Trump himself was all that and worse.
And that would be on you.
Somervilletom is not responsible for your behavior nor your response to his characterization of your behavior. He, and indeed anyone, is only responsible for speaking his truth. What you do with his speech is on you.
If they are wrong and racist, and being called out on it, is not enough to repent, then I don’t want to win them over. Time to choose sides. If the question simply hasn’t been posed to them… when, if not now, is the time to force them to decide the question of which side they are on?
Their anger follows no logic and may be un-appeasable… yet you are trying to appease them. It isn’t going to turn out the way you think.
petr, I’m not talking about the people with the white hoods in their closets. I’m talking about the ordinary working class types who may just be misinformed or ignorant or are too worried about making their next car payment of mortgage payment.
You want to demand that they ignore their economic plight, choose a side and in the same breath, call them a racist?
We already saw how that worked out in 2016. You really want to try it again and expect a different result?
Time for them to pick sides, John. If they haven’t done so already.
One side is using a ceaseless fusillade of lies to blame immigrants and libruls for the economic anxieties these ordinary working class types are experiencing… and, despite a near total absence of any kind of evidence supporting the argument, these ordinary working class types are buying it, hook line and sinker.
The other side is telling the truth and, despite the repeated insistence of reality in support of this truth, these ordinary working class types ain’t buying…
The time to pick sides is in about three years for most people who, unlike the folks on BMG are more worried about some New England Patriot’s recent knee injury. I’m not about to burn bridges with someone today and force them to commit to being with me 100% or being a Nazi.
Perhaps you might spend some time in Lawrence or Springfield.
Just saying.
Maybe you ought to spend some time with working class Americans who are living from paycheck to paycheck and have been doing so for decades no matter which party is in office.
I daresay I’ve spent more time with a broader group of working class people (not just Americans!) than you can ever dream of. You know absolutely nothing about me, what I do, or where I come from.
I suggest that you arrange to spend an afternoon or evening with some black families in Springfield, where you tell them about about how we should ignore the Nazis and white supremacists marching in Charlottesville. Tell them about what good cop Conrad Laraviere.
Funny how Springfield officials don’t think we should be ignoring all this, they seem to be “taking the bait” in spite of your desire to ignore it:
But then there is this, from the same piece:
Democrats oppose racism. Democrats recognize that race-based wage discrimination is still an issue, Here’s something to tell your white co-workers (emphasis mine):
In your threadstarter, you were quite explicit about your audience (emphasis mine: “Yes, I am talking about white working class voters who voted for Trump (or voted against Clinton),”
You beat the drums for your white friends, while demanding that we ignore the Nazis and white supremacists who terrify and threatens blacks, minorities, and immigrants.
I spend plenty of time with working-class people, thank you very much. I see no evidence at all that you spend any time AT ALL with anyone except “white working class voters who voted for Trump (or voted against Clinton),”
You’re talking about Collaborators. We know how that turns out.
Indeed, I do think we must “try it again”. And again. And again.
I think we must not appease racists, bigots, and those who enable them.