Is there a link?
We’ve all heard the stories before of people blaming their child’s autism on vaccines. And yet there have been numerous reports by reputable sources that there is NO LINK between them.
example –
The CDC disputes a connection between the vaccine and autism, saying, “The causes of autism are unknown in most cases.”
The government agency’s website states: “In a few cases, biologic causes have been identified, although none are unique to autism. … The current theory favored by many experts is that autism is a genetically-based disorder that occurs before birth.”
Recently, the paper which may have started the “histeria” about this link has been withdrawn from publication.
A major British medical journal on Tuesday retracted a flawed study linking the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to autism and bowel disease.
There have also been many scientific studies showing a genetic link for the disease as well, and not to vaccines. I have heard of these contrarian studies for years, believed them and have spoken to some parents with effected children, but they refuse to believe otherwise.
I am lucky enough to not have children suffering from autism, but I also believe that we waste money when we try to cure something and go in the “wrong” direction. Of course we must be sensitive to the parents of these kids since their angst against vaccines may have been founded on “science” such as this study from The Lancet. We also have many cases of practicing Doctors who claim and tell their patients that vaccines are a cause of Autism.
But in order to focus our resources, I would suggest that the CDC with cooperation from HHS Secretary Sebelius hold a news conference and discuss this openly. Let’s get our resources focused and let’s help parents understand the problem. Vaccines are not perfect but I do not believe they are as dangerous as some people argue. There will be reactions, sometimes fatal, to vaccines but never coming close to the morality and/or morbidity of the disease which these vaccines protect against.
Thoughts?
This is a sad diversion of resources that could be put to much better use.
The story says that:
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p>The story doesn’t outright say that they believe she is faking it, but certainly uses their guests and footage to make the implication.
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p>While not directly related to what you were posting about, JohnD, you diary made me think of this.
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p>I’m of the opinion that people who are hurting badly need somewhere to direct their anger so they don’t take it out on themselves. Maybe there is some truth to this concern over vaccination, but it needs to be based on a concerted effort and scientific study, not a few opinions magnified by anger.
The people who will not listen to me about genetics being more implicated than vaccines ARE angry. They want a villain and the vaccines provide it. Genetics can point right back at themselves.
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p>And I said right in my initial statement that vaccines are not perfect. How could they be. Everybody out there is so different that believing we won’t have various reactions like immune reactions to a vaccine is foolish. If you realize by their very nature, a vaccine is messing with someone’s immune response so of there can be serious and even deadly reactions.
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p>But let’s get rid of any boogymen!
Who are “The people who will not listen to me [about genetics and vaccines]…”?
It’s not like one’s genes are one’s fault, so there really shouldn’t be shame in it.
I have eczema/allergies and 3 out of my 5 kids have my eczema/allergies. My wife will jokingly (?) give me grief when one of them is suffering from an allergen or eczema… and I honestly do have a “twinge” of guilt over it. I can imagine a parent feeling badly if their child inherited something which was more serious.
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p>PS I’m allergic to taxes. (that’s a joke)
It’s not my fault.
It’s not my fault.
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p>It’s not my fault.
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p>It’s not my fault.
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p>It’s not my fault.
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p>That’ll be $150 if you have insurance (who’ll pick up $87.35). $250 if you don’t have insurance.
So you found the retraction of the paper I recently brought up. I can still Google many drugs and find the legal teams open and eager for business.
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p>What I did do over this swine flu nonsense is find a video of a CDC meeting which was the most condecending attitude by “authorities” on why the lowly peasants were not getting the shots as they were told. I spent about an entire week, six hours a day looking at all kinds of vaccine info. I made up my own mind, you made up your mind. Good, more room for me later. I know I have biases like being a certified 911 truther with a way radical worldview. This is how I can deconstruct the NLP in even short statements. This is marginalizing “the enemy”.
Keywords here
reputable sources
histeria
flawed study
genetic link
Genetic link does not explain the kids who were fine before the shot.
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p>What you do have now is a growing anti-establishment medical movement which I take as a very good development.
http://www.naturalnews.com/
Real science does not have to marginalize the enemy. This was made crystal clear many times over in the global marketing swine hysteria campaign.
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p>I take the word of an “escapee” from government over the word of those in government anyday.
http://solari.com/blog/?p=3532
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p>One family, even one destroyed by intentional disinformation is one too many.
In My Cold Dead Arm.
As soon as I saw this diary about vaccines I just knew Lasthorseman would weigh in with his “wisdom”.
Think of all the wonderful advances in medicine ruined by a botched vaccine hype campaign.
I to recall the mandatory part of this.
The 1000 a day for “non-compliance”
The swine flu FEMA quarrantine camps
The road stop swine police with RFID bracelets all of which I am super happy to see not happen.
I don’t want to hurt people.
Because politicians need to seem likeable, and you can turn off voters who really care about this issue by flat out stating in public: “There is no connection between vaccines and autism.” Jenny McCarthy is very sympathetic presence on TV (I think she went on Oprah to promote this idea that vaccines cause autism) and Sebelius is not going be able to “win” a public debate with her–which is what such a press conference would become.
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p>Probably the best option is the one Hillary Clinton’s campaign had: offer to spend lots of money on scientific research into autism’s causes and therapies. Once we really pin this cause down, then we take away the fog/uncertainty that gives this mistaken belief life.
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p>Though in the short term, it might be good if CDC created some PSAs of mothers from Iowa whose kids came down with the measles, and just how worried they were–and how they wish they’d immunized their kids.
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p>Thanks, JohnD, for writing this diary.
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p>If these are licensed physicians you’re talking about, then there’s a problem. Advising against immunizations because they “cause autism” is a serious deviation from the standard of care regarding pediatric care and prevention. Such a physician is unfit and should be reported to the Board of Registration in Medicine.
In looking briefly for specific DRs, I see they are remaining anonymous in stories. I think we all can relate to stories where DRs have said something like “The official story is drug X works, but (wink, wink…) I don’t think it does”… I’m sure there are DRs who will publicly state their beliefs too. I spoke to a few of our “school” nurses and they all have students attending school who have NOT had their MMR shots for fear of autism (many of these children are siblings of children with autism). It’s real.
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p>If you visit any of the autism forums or support group web sites, you’ll see the rancor about vaccines and the “defensiveness” and even anger about any studies which dispel the link. Just one of hundreds…
of a significant population that is anti-vaccine at all. Personally, I think these parents are crackpots and their unimmunized children pose a significant health threat to those children who, due to pre-existing conditions and co-morbidities, are unable to be vaccinated. I have no patience at all with these people. My rhetoric usually includes the words “child abuse” when describing these people.
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p>But actual licensed physicians are required to adhere to a certain standard of care. Deviation from the standard is grounds for a malpractice suit and a modified or suspended license. For example, a licensed physician who does not believe in the use of anti-hypertensive drugs and, therefore, does not treat a person’s hypertension is guilty of a significant deviation from the standard of care. The physician is unfit and needs to go. The same is true for physicians who either overtly or tacitly suggest to parents that childhood immunizations are a bad idea. The standard of pediatric care demands that children be immunized with a series of vaccinations according to a prescribed schedule that is vetted by valid peer-reviewed research, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Centers for Disease Control. Again, any deviation from that immunization schedule is a serious deviation from the standard of care for otherwise healthy children. That physician is unfit.
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p>If I knew of a physician who was suggesting, either overtly or tacitly, to parents that children should not receive vaccinations in general or MMRs specifically, I would drop a dime to the Board of Registration in Medicine in Massachusetts (presuming the physician is licensed in Massachusetts) immediately.
By and large, science is the reason why we live longer, happier and healthier than we did hundreds of years ago. It’s a shame that so many have turned from science and evidence.
There are plenty of conservatives who distrust the progressive policies that caused their own prosperity.
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p>Funny how these jokers who claim that science is optional in science and evolutionary development still trust it 100% on the question of gravity.
their seeming hypocrisy is quite often frustrating, however, most are not acting rationally. While not everyone’s distrust of science is based in faith, a majority of it is, and the notion of faith is in itself scientifically irrational. I’m not criticizing that irrationality, as I’m studying to be a minister myself, but I’ve just come to realize that one can’t argue with irrational logic.
A good friend of mine doesn’t like Doctors. Thirty years ago, is brother broke his hand and went tot he Doctors. While there, they uncovered the man had cancer. They started treatment immediately but he passed away 6 months later. My friend contends his brother would have lived for many years if he hadn’t gone to the Doctors. Its not a rational argument, but it is something he “appears” to believe sincerely! How many people won’t go to the Dentist. I know these are irrational “fears” people have but maybe it’s close to the same part of the brain which is causing these parents to hold on to their theories… and their fears!
From what I understand, the problem people associated with vaccination stem from the use of heavy metal preservatives in the concoction. If true, it wouldn’t be surprising that problems with some people exist. Heavy metals are long known to cause neurological problems (“Mad as a hatter!”) I don’t see any hope of resolving that issue.
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p>Certainly the Pharma folks don’t want a resolution. They’ve got the $$$ and PR people to deny any attempt at truth. Our elected will go to where the dollars are and our government has a history of regulators with roots in the industry they regulate – All the way from railroads to banks.
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p>We’ve not changed too much since the days when cigarettes were good for you.
The US doesn’t allow any additives in immunizations, and the rest of the Western world does.
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p>Which is why the rest of the world had sufficient H1N1 vaccine from “go” and we didn’t.
from the vaccines… there was no decrease in any symptoms or complaints and in fact the rates went up!
There are a number of videos out on the web of Lawrence Lessig talking about institutional corruption (e.g., here). He suggests that we trust a number of our institutions less because they are either subject to the wrong influences (e.g., money) or appear to subject to the wrong influences.
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p>A case in point might be tobacco science. There have been too many cases where industry has essentially suborned science by funding studies to give the results it wants. This makes us less trusting of scientific results. “Are they true or purchased?” we might wonder and how would we know.
for mood-altering drugs among toddlers and older children, is another case in point, I think. On the face of it, a suspect development, considering the amount of money involved and the ocassional unsavory links between researchers and drug companies.
And no, I haven’t been hanging out with Cruise and Travolta, but I sometimes suspect that psychiatric meds are overprescribed.
Are you suggesting this is a fabricated disorder?
I’m not suggesting that ADD/ADHD is fabricated, but I do agree with Farnkoff that there is evidence that it is over-diagnosed among boys in school settings. I fear that we jump to psychotropic medications too often, chemically covering the manifestations of problems in the home and family that remain unaddressed while the child’s superficial behavior “improves”.
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p>I speak from personal experience with my children, and I’d rather not discuss the specifics here on a blog.
I agree AND concur!
in rather subtle terms, typical boy behavior as defective is problematic. An informed and worthwhile discussion, though, about the issue of boys’ achievement is a hard thing to have, even for professional educators, and requires deep familiarity with the data, extensive experience with struggling boys themselves in academic settings, and an understanding of the implications of the feminized classroom. The data clearly demonstrates Ophelia was revived long ago, but Hamlet, lo and behold, is and has been struggling.
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p>But that is not the same discussion about whether or not ADD/ADHD is a valid disorder as diagnosed by a competent clinician, and that point should be made clear. Are boys misdiagnosed? Yes. Are girls misdiagnosed? Yes. Are there undiagnosed boys and girls suffering in classrooms? Yes. None of these scenarios speak to the validity of a competent diagnosis, however, of what can be a seriously debilitating disorder.
I completely concur that ADD/ADHD does exist and is a seriously debilitating disorder. I only hope that someday we will find or invent more effective and more gender-neutral ways of diagnosing and then treating it in our adolescents.
I guess I’m just not sure what ADD is, really. Misbehaving? Difficulty paying attention to boring things? How does anybody know it’s an actual disorder rather than just kids being kids? If I wasn’t scared to death of my teachers when I was a kid, I may very well have exhibited some of the same behaviors that seem to get children these diagnoses. I suppose, as Mr. Baker so infamously said, I’m just not smart enough. Probably there is plenty of conclusive scientific research on the subject that I haven’t got around to reading.
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p>But take the case of Rebecca Riley, diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 2. How the hell do you make that kind of judgment about a two-year-old? “Hyperactive”- compared to what? Ever heard of the “terrible twos”? Should all overactive two-year-olds be chemically sedated with clonidine, ritalin, or risperidal? It looks like Rebecca’s rather dimwitted, drug-addicted parents are going to get convicted of first-degree murder- which they probably deserve. But what of the psychiatrist, who testified in their trial under a grant of immunity from prosecution? She spent only an hour with the little girl, and in that brief period was able to somehow decide that Rebecca was beyond the point of no return: forget learning to talk in complete sentences- what this toddler really needs is some good, strong blood-pressure medication!
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p>The psychiatrist kept writing the prescriptions, even after she knew that the mother was exceeding the recommended dosages. As disturbing as the conduct of the parents was, I think the doctor’s conduct was also blameworthy and irresponsible, and perhaps symptomatic of a culture that over-relies on the quick fix of psychiatric medication. Frankly I’m not sure that these things are safe for kids in any dosage, and I think doctors should be much more cautious than they are in prescribing them. Certainly you don’t give psychiatric drugs to a two-year-old as the first line of treatment.
We expect too much of doctors. (Yeah, also lawyers, judges, politicians, police, teachers, etc.) I hear daily stories of doctors that go from exam room to exam room as the font of medical knowledge to the unenlightened. They are surrounded by staff that are taught never to question a doctor, no matter what is done or said. Patient’s concerns are ignored and questions handled with disdain. Is it any wonder these doctors develop the manners of Saddam?
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p>Doctors are people with the same human foibles that trouble all of us. What diagnosis and treatment is recommended needs be understood by the patient, questioned if necessary. As patients, people should understand that and be prepared to deal with it.
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p>Patients must accept the responsibility of their and their dependent’s treatment. The doctor works with people, the veterinarian works with sheep.
… I can say first hand that many, if not most, parents accept the current science. I have several male family members who have been diagnosed with high functioning spectrum disorders. There is obviously something in our genes.
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p>However, we are also quick to point out that the current science cannot explain the rise in autism over the past generation.
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p>Logically it seems that there is a genetic predisposition that is triggered by something…. but what is that something?
from people I know who work with large numbers of kids (mostly boys) with spectrum disorders who are highly suspicious of years of fertilizer exposures, i.e., the athletics connection. I don’t know if there has been any peer-reviewed studies done on this, but this possibility seems to be fairly commonly held among professional clinicians who work with this population. The connection, of course, would be the exposures to fertilizers during their adolescence while playing sports and involves both the fathers and grandfathers of these children. Consequently, it’s not at all uncommon for the screening clinicians doing the initial assessment on a small boy suspected of having a spectrum disorder to ask to meet the dad. Meeting dad and interacting with him often provides a lot of informal information about the boy….
the father’s and grandfather’s adolescence. That got a bit garbled. Sorry.
.. makes a certain amount of sense since there is no obvious smoking gun within the environment of the kids and gestational period themselves. The causal factors (aside from genetics) in those who are diagnosed have been hunted and hunted with no success. Because the numbers are so staggering but nothing seem clear, it only seem prudent that we should be looking elsewhere.
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p>Pre-conception triggers are a good place to start.
but the ones I know definitely believe in the link to vaccines.
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p>Two more data points…
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p>This story
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p>1) Vaccinations May Cause 70% of Autism.
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p>Deadly Immunity by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
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p>As I said in the original post, it is understandable why some parents will believe this since the media and some scientist have said as much in the past.
… about 3 or 4 years after thimerosal was phased out of vaccines, there was an open question. But once the suspect substance was no longer being used AND the diagnoses continued to rise, it was clear that it was hogwash.
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p>The loudest advocates get the most press. That’s why you see well meaning people like Jenny McCarthy doing more damage than good by diverting resources. The notion that parents are in denial about the genetics might very well be true for the vocal minority.
I really don’t know what, if any, adverse reactions may occur due to vaccination. I do know that, while we thank Doctors Salk and Sabin, an unfortunate release of polio vaccine in the 1930’s killed many children. That early error’s recognition led to a true remedy of the scourge the children of the 20th century lived with. Only with openness of opinion can we come closer to recognizing the truth.
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p>”The science is settled.” “There can be no discussion.” “Overwhelming opinion is on my side.” These are phrases that bring us back to dark ages.
This morning on Morning Joe, there was an author who wrote a book (Unscientific America – How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Culture by Chris Mooney) about debunking medical myths and it included Autism/Vaccines. There was also talk and inferences about these stubbornly vocal cynics who still believe in the link between vaccines and autism.
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p>Video.
An AP story released today
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p>So while some people questioned whether parents still believed in this link, this study says quite a few still believe it, even if they are in the minority. And those who think will often refuse getting their children vaccinated.