Compare this:
Wonderland Greyhound Park closed after 75 years, laying off 150 workers.
with this:
Wonderland Park, the former greyhound racing facility in Revere, abruptly closed yesterday and laid off 85 employees….
Same story, same day, different newspapers, wildly different numbers. For God’s sake, which is it? Did 150 people get laid off, or did 85 people get laid off? They can’t both be right.
This has been a major recurring problem throughout this whole dog racing/slot machines/casinos debate: how many jobs are we really talking about? How many will be lost if the tracks close? How many will be gained if we allow slots? If we build a big casino? The pro-gambling crowd’s favorite casino number – 15,000 new jobs – has been pretty much demolished by people who looked at it carefully. We saw the same kind of fuzzy math when the dog racing ballot question was on the agenda – numbers offered by the tracks were much, much higher than numbers offered by other sources, including government agencies like the census.
It would be really helpful in debating this kind of issue if people wouldn’t bandy about numbers that are anything but reality-based. But in light of the wild disagreement about a fact as seemingly straightforward as how many people got laid off yesterday when Wonderland closed, I’m not holding my breath.
stomv says
* how many were full time? part time?
* how many came with health care? retirement benefits?
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p>Heck, a decent sized restaurant and bar with lunch and dinner hours can have 85 employees. Restaurants are opened and shuttered every week in MA. We certainly don’t expect the state legislature to fight to save any given restaurant… even if their actions (taxes, health requirements, smoking ban, etc) helped push the restaurant out of business.
peter-porcupine says
….I would say that the Herald figure includes vendors, concessions, 1099 subcontractors of dog owners, etc. while the Globe has only actual track employees.
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p>Herald says ‘Workers’ and Globe says ‘Employees’.
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p>The Globe would be more technically accurate, as you cannot lay off a vendor, but the Herald would be more accurate in describing the number of people who lost jobs.
carey-theil says
“Owners” of racing greyhounds are investors who may never even meet the dog they “own.” So those are neither “workers” or “employees.”
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p>Although I think you are right in one sense: they probably do (wrongly) count those individuals in their job statistics.
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p>For at least a decade, the dog tracks have exaggerated their job figures. In reality the two dog tracks – at their peak – employed maybe 500, with the vast majority of those being part-time.
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p>If you believe Raynham Park still employs 200, then I have a nice bridge to sell you …
peter-porcupine says
And while Raynham Park may not have 200 people on the PARK payroll, there are hot dog sellers and beer vendors who are not Raynham employees who have lost their jobs too.
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p>Even if they DIDN’T have full pensions and 40 hours, which is apparently the only jobs worth counting to listen to BMG. And many such vendors are self employed and not eligible for unemployment or any other kind of assistance, as they weren’t W-2 employees of anybody, just people hustling to make a buck.
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p>Not everybody can work in biotech – some people just work three jobs to make ends meet. So while they may not have been ‘real’ jobs, they will be missed by the people who had them.
middlebororeview says
For a smart person, you’re speculating and there is a conspicuous hostile edge that seems personal, undeserved and misplaced.
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p>The media reports indicate a willingness to repeat meaningless propaganda without question when they should be asking “Why? How many employees?”
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p>What has changed in the operation of the tracks?
Are people being sacrificed by wealthy investors simply throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get what they wanted – SLOTS?
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p>In a conversation with Senator Marc Pacheco, who fell in love with SLOTS years ago, evidence, facts and statistics be damned, the Senator carefully worded his comments to indicate that 1400 families would be effected if Raynham closed. What does that mean? It certainly doesn’t mean that there were or are 1400 employees.
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p>Of Gambling Addiction
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p>that includes Governor Patrick tosses 308,580 under the Casino Bus , using the 6% figure offered by the Industry.
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p>Who is asking about those people?
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p>Gambling Addiction has the lowest rate of self-referral of all addiction and the highest rate of suicide. This is the Gambling Industry’s Dirty Little Secret.
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p>
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p>From Plainridge, the same tactics were used.
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p>
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p>From Greyhound Racing
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p>that includes: 17 greyhound racing tracks closed
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p>The voting results of the Ballot Question are here:
Ballot Question 3 – Senate Districts
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p>Ballot Question 3 – House Districts
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p>This is about wealthy investors who didn’t get their way sacrificing people.
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p>We can do better. And the media needs to do better in asking the necessary questions.
peter-porcupine says
I am GLAD the casino bill failed, and think the whole idea should be scrapped in favor of something productive (Cape Wind!) instead of exploitative.
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p>What DOES bring out the edge in me, I admit, is the attitude that these weren’t ‘real’ jobs, only ‘part time’. A REAL job has pension, benefits and a sense of personal fulfillment – THAT’s worth saving, not just some part time gig that gets you through the Stop n Shop checkout.
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p>It’s a shame that somebody like…I don’t know, Labor & Workforce Development?…couldn’t have helped locate other jobs. And the idea that the track had ‘veto power’ as expressed elsewhere is nonsense. The Secretary could have said that while the track may not want an official retraining program on premises due to the need to convey the impression that they would be saved by the last minute machinations of powerful patrons, the reality is that the Director could have announced an open door for track workers who wanted to ‘hedge their bets’ in the best tradition of that industry. Even if it was ‘just’ older women with ‘just’ a high school education.
david says
They did help. I talked to the rapid response guy – he confirmed that he had overcome the track owners’ initial resistance to accepting help, and since that story appeared had conducted on-premises training, resume workshops, etc. They obviously can’t make jobs appear out of thin air, but they can help with the search, and they did.
peter-porcupine says
Since this comment from Kirth down thread went unchallanged –
kirth says
I had not seen David’s followup to the initial rejection anywhere, so I thought that was the end of it.
carey-theil says
Peter, I didn’t denigrate part-time jobs in any way. I was pointing out that the Massachusetts dog tracks have grossly exaggerated their employment figures for years, and have largely been able to get away with it.
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p>State records show that most “dog owners” who raced greyhounds in Massachusetts actually lived out-of-state. As I said in my earlier post, most dog owners are essentially investors who may never even meet the dog they “own.” So it’s not clear to me what “subcontractors” they would have employed, other than a very small number of kennel workers. Many of these kennel workers had already been working in multiple states, and are now employed in the industry elsewhere.
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p>The bottom line is that Massachusetts voters had a choice.
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p>The Yes campaign argued that greyhound racing was cruel and inhumane, and our economy should not be built on cruelty to dogs.
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p>The No campaign argued that if the Greyhound Protection Act passed, thousands of people would be put out of work, and these people would suffer hardship.
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p>The amount spent on media was roughly even. On election day, citizens went to the polls and voted YES by an overwhelming, 12-point margin. The measure passed in nearly 290 cities and towns from one end of the state to the other.
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p>What brings out the edge in me is people who have a hard time accepting the decision voters made on Question 3.
middlebororeview says
what changed last week from the week before?
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p>If nothing has changed, this is a SCAM by the gambling interests unless a more viable argument is provided. Who in the media is asking?
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p>PP, thank you for the jobs clarification. You previously blogged about the Governor’s original presentation and a state-run laundry that made your position pretty clear at the time.
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p>This is an emotionally charged issue, which was part of my point. Speaking as someone who frequently misstates things and/or is frequently misinterpreted, on this issue, I have attempted to be careful in my comments. In this, as in all issues, I value differing opinion because they provoke thought – always a good thing!
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p>Speaking solely as an opponent of predatory gambling, my concern is that the gambling industry offers low wage dead end jobs that provide poverty level living, qualifying working people for taxpayer subsidies. This is accomplished by part-time employment, with no benefits.
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p>It is a convenience and cost-savings by wealthy folks in a lucrative business.
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p>Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for MassHealth instead of an extremely profitable gambling venture?
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p>Since there has been no greyhound racing and it was banned by Ballot more than a year ago, what’s the deal? and why isn’t the media asking?
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p>Since Massachusetts government budgets and costs are carefully concealed from the public, is anyone asking about the costs of the racing commission? It was my understanding that the cost was ~ $5 million when 4 tracks were running. Have those costs been reduced? Are the same number of personnel required?
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p>As a footnote: Cape Wind? Thumbs up! But how about pushing ‘weatherization’ and retro-fitting? Is has been estimated that 50% of our energy is wasted. Improving housing and buildings cannot be outsourced and creates jobs, creates small businesses and by saving cost puts $$$ in the pockets of families.
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p>We can do better.
christopher says
I heard a lot of griping in the news about if only he supported racinos. Even “Democrats” in my area are all but threatening to not vote for the Governor because of his casino veto.
af says
Are they residents of Revere, or long time gamblers, who have a vested interest in saving the facility of their own personal interest, or are they thinking voters who are unhappy that a source of additional revenue, costs not withstanding, was turned down?
christopher says
…plus one eye as always on our friends to the north who they’re afraid will beat us to it. As Lynne alludes to below (She knows me off line so the line makes sense coming from her.) it’s very much about where I’m from. Many of these same “Democrats” will probably vote to roll back the sales tax as well:(
ms says
The governor wants 3 big resort-style casinos and not racinos in order to create the highest number of jobs possible from changes in gambling law.
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p>With 3 new casinos, there will be construction jobs to put up the buildings, people working at table games, and people working in restaurants and stores in the casino complex.
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p>Having slots at a place that is already there is not going to create as many jobs as 3 new casinos.
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p>This is why Patrick insists on 3 new resort-style casinos and not slots machines at the tracks.
peter-porcupine says
middlebororeview says
It would seem that you are imbibing the Casino KoolAid along with the Governor when facts prove otherwise.
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p>You will not get the euphemistically labeled facility you fantasize.
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p>Senator Rosenberg spent $80,000 hard earned taxpayer dollars on the Innovation Report and publicly stated that he had done it to ‘justify’ support. That flawed report duplicated errors from previous Beacon Hill BENEFITS reports, at taxpayers expense.
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p>Although I make no pretense of being a statistician or mathematical wizz, the flaws are glaring.
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p>In the updated Spectrum Gaming Report that was prepared for the Speaker of the House in March 2010, for unknown taxpayer dollars, the revenues are based on travel time of 2 hours.
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p>From (our friends to our north) —
Casinos: Limited Tourism Benefit
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p>
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p>From Hold on, Holyoke!
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p>
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p>As you probably know. the Gambling Industry spent $60 million in Pennsylvania and the legislature voted at midnight on the 4th of July to legalize slots. In Ohio, they spent $50 million on their 5th attempt to finally succeed.
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p>I attended the first week of Senate Hearings and am particularly disturbed by the lobbyists, clad in suits costing more than my entire wardrobe, calling legislators on their cell phones to instruct their votes and dictate terms.
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p>When I attended the Senate Ways & Means Hearing, opposition speakers were heard after the news cycle, after waiting many hours and reminded of their 3 minute time limit, after enduring endless wandering comments from proponents.
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p>I arrived before noon and didn’t speak until after 7 PM.
Many others were forced to leave for family and commitments.
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p>It was clear the Chairwoman believed all opponents had
departed when she announced ‘who is left to speak in
opposition?’
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p>This is not acceptable public policy nor acceptable fiscal policy.
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p>From Enticing Addicts
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p>
“Winner Takes All,” Christina Binkley, pages 192-194
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p>
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p>”Winner Takes All,” Christina Binkley, pages 183-184
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p>For additional information, I recommend that you consider United to Stop Slots in Massachusetts
or the articles posted here Middleboro Remembers
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p>The Governor got it wrong!
lynne says
Look at what area you are from. ^_^
metoo says
If this day of reckoning was coming someone with some sense should have made plans for proper transitioning. Unneeded or unsupported employment is an ongoing fact of life. We always seem so surprised or upset when it happens. The only money from the state should be for helping people locate new places to work.
kirth says
Job retraining was offered to the racetracks for their employees. The track management turned it down.
heartlanddem says
…shamelessly made false promises to employees that they would all be in the money with slots. Bad business practices….kindah like….no…….just like gambling with peoples lives.
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p>And now they have Kathi-Anne Reinstein (S(lots)-Revere) hysterically blaming Governor Patrick on every media outlet she can find for the demise of workers (#????) in an industry that has been on artifical life support for years ago.
middlebororeview says
few were paying attention to her conduct when she conducted closed door meetings with …. who? The Industry?
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p>Rep. Kathi-Anne Reinstein
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p>
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p>This entire process has been conducted behind closed doors, excluding the public, lacking transparency and public hearings, excluding a real COST ANALYSIS, catering to vested interests at the expense of taxpayers, with Rep. Reinstein leading the stampede.
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p>Pity the press didn’t question that.
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p>
conseph says
This is when the issue now being faced by the newly unemployed track workers started.
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p>There was a very strong campaign to eliminate / outlaw dog racing in MA. This effort came on the heels of a previous effort that failed, but in a non-presidential election year and 2008 was not only a presidential election year, but a very special presidential election year bringing far more people to the polls than in the prior effort. One can debate the tactics employed by the outlaw dog racing folks (videos from Mexico for example), but they won the vote and dog racing was outlawed in MA.
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p>In the months prior to the November elections, the MA legislature had debated and voted down proposals to expand gaming in MA. These proposals may have provided a landing spot for those working at the tracks at the time. We will never know what would have happened, but we would have casinos up and running now if expanded gaming had passed in 2008.
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p>However, expanded gaming went down to defeat for a variety of reasons. The then-Speaker did not want it, times were different, etc. But let’s not forget the lack of leadership exhibited by Governor Patrick who was out of the State negotiating his book deal at the time of the vote. If he had really wanted casinos he would have been in Boston, not New York.
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p>So let’s put his feet to the fire for the debacle that has been the gaming debate in 2010, but let’s not forget the failure of leadership in 2008 which made 2010 possible.
somervilletom says
“Expanded gaming” went down to defeat because it is TERRIBLE public policy. There was no “failure of leadership” in 2008. The outcome in 2010 is the right outcome.
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p>I feel less sympathy for the remaining handful of workers left jobless by the shutdown of Wonderland than for the few holdouts who lost their jobs when Polaroid finally caved — both groups had ample opportunity to find another way to earn a living. Both employers were clearly moribund for years (or decades) before their ultimate demise.
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p>If we are to put anybody’s “feet to the fire” for any “debacle” regarding the unemployed, I suggest we start with those who worked so hard to block the extension of unemployment benefits to a great many suffering Massachusetts residents who, in my opinion, are far more deserving than anybody left jobless by the long-overdue shutdown of Wonderland.
carey-theil says
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p>I’m sorry ConsEph, but this just isn’t true. To make our case, the Yes on 3 campaign exclusively used video footage and photographs that met these three criteria:
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p>1. It had to be from Massachusetts.
2. It had to be recent.
3. It had to be from a credible source, like official state records or the racetracks themselves.
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p>I actually wrote about this on BMG at the time. See my previous posts on this subject here, here or here.
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p>You also might want to look at the report we release during the campaign on greyhound racing in Massachusetts.
centralmassdad says
that we have replaced all of these positions with “green jobs.” Otherwise, it would be a bummer to legislate people out of work in a recession.
middlebororeview says
Although each worker laid off is regrettable, the credibility of those providing the numbers is nonexistent.
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p>Had that grossly flawed legislation gone into effect, a licensing commission (the BLOATED REGULATORY BUREAUCRACY filled with political hacks and relatives that no one wants to put a cost on) would not be up and running for 18-19 months according to the few responsible comments made by Senator Rosenberg.
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p>This makes for great theater, but hardly makes sense.
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p>This from 2009 —
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p>RI Greyhounds Gone Saturday, Aug 8 [2009]
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p>
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p>If any Predatory Gambling Opponent made the fact-free comments emanating from the Gambling Vultures, the press would crucify us!
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p>How about fair and equal treatment and the media demanding sensible information and not simply fairy tales?
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p>Nothing has changed in their current business.
justice4all says
The laid-off workers can’t pay their rent or mortgage with your regret.
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p>And Middleboro, you don’t do you argument any justice by complaining about the inconsistency in the numbers being report and providing the Twin River article, as if one had anything to do with the other. Not the same state or situation.
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p>Don’t get me wrong – I am not pro-gambling. I am however pro-jobs. It’s going to be difficult for these workers to find their footing in this economy. I just hope the necessary safety nets are in place.
middlebororeview says
but how many people receive almost 2 years’ notice?
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p>The tracks have received preferential treatment at taxpayer expense for decades. Why?
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p>How many small businesses can boast that?
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p>How many small businesses that employ 85 workers have closed with barely a whimper from the media? Don’t they deserve the same attention and coverage? Why isn’t Kathi-Anne Reinstein conducting closed door meetings to save their jobs?
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p>And wasn’t Revere Copper closed because the property was purchased by one of the Gambling Vultures? Do you see comparable media coverage? Did you hear a whimper?
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p>Pro-jobs? Yes! But not when it’s cloaked in a scam as phony as the proverbial $3 bill that will cost more than the phony revenue figures provided.
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p>Please explain ‘why’ Twin Rivers is any different. Proponents offered identical reasons and grossly over inflated job figures. The only difference I can see is that Twin Rivers ended their subsidies of the poorly attended greyhound racing through the bankruptcy court. Massachusetts accomplished the process through the ballot box.
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p>
justice4all says
in their 40’s-60’s can start over in a new industry? How old are you, Middleboro? Think it’s easy?
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p>Don’t blame the workers for whatever perceived sins their bosses may ave committed or the treatment provided by the Legislature.
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p>As for the numbers of Wonderland vs. Twin River – I think it’s a deliberate obfuscation. We don’t yet know the final numbers out of Wonderland, and I think you’re flogging a red herring to make a point.
somervilletom says
Those who stayed at Wonderland until the bitter end made a conscious choice. In my view, they are no more deserving than any workers in any other industry — particularly in any other dying industry.
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p>A great many people in their 40’s-60’s start over in a new industry. I don’t know about MiddleboroReview, but I’m 58 and I’ve had to do it several times in my career. I have no doubt I’ll have to do it at least a few more times before I die.
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p>I was in Pittsburgh in 1982 when I heard the same complaints from steel workers — workers, some even in their twenties, who made no attempt to educate themselves, to acquire marketable skills, to identify other less-moribund industries where they might land. Instead, they complained and whined and demanded that society bail them out. They, too, were disappointed that it didn’t work out that way.
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p>Nobody says life is easy. I can’t speak for MiddleboroReview, but I’m not blaming workers for “perceived sins” of their bosses, the “treatment provided by the Legislature”, or anything else except their own fully-intentional decision to utterly ignore the cacophony of alarms warning of the demise of Wonderland.
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p>Workers with mortgages and rent should have found new careers years ago. A public policy that provides months or years of unemployment compensation for those who chose not to do so is already sufficiently generous, as is the wide variety of retraining and adult-education programs available at bargain prices from our public higher education system.
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p>The power-play of the pro-gambling lobby failed — thankfully. Now its time for the legislators to get back to work on more urgent and productive matters.
middlebororeview says
with grandstanding by both Wonderland and Plainridge to provoke approval of flawed public policy.
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p>Bottom line — NOTHING HAS CHANGED!