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jimc

But I think “atrocities” is a bit strong, no?

kyledeb

But I do feel like migrants live an atrocious life in the U.S.  And a lot of horrible things are justified, like the shooting of migrants at the border, and the death of migrants in ICE custody, because they’re illegal.  I’ll definitely consider modifying the word in the future.

purplerain

how well the gateway communities are faring with the illegal immigrant problem?  And to keep this so PC…let’s use the term “newcomer,” instead of illegal immigrant. How about a fire department that has to explain to a “new comer” how wrong it is to roast a goat in their bathtub?  And then there was the case of a hibachi nearly burning through the floor, and the newcomers being irate and combative for being told to “put it out.”  Or how about a first responder that had to be tested for TB, because the family of the “new comer” insisted that the patient didn’t have raging TB…and he did.  Or a school system that is overwhelmed by “new comers” that it hadn’t planned for five years ago…and don’t have the resources to manage their needs?  Or how about the person who was hit by the car of a newcomer who was neither licensed or insured?  Let’s not even talk about the overcrowding in apartments – with squeezing 10-12 people in a four room apartment, with personal space delinated by sheets between the mattresses on the floor. 

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The fact is – resources are limited.  The feds aren’t doing a thing to help, and the gateway communities are drowning.  Your advocacy comes with a cost…and you’re not the one who’s paying it.

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How about advocating for these communities or do you think that these issues are going to magically take care of themselves? 

kyledeb

that U.S. citizens complain migrants are responsible can usually be solved in much easier ways.  Things like health care, crime, public resources, I can’t think of one for which deporting millions of migrants is going to be simpler than any other action.

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Furthermore, I don’t advocate that these communities swallow these migrants.  I advocate that they support taking on the root of the problem.  The reasons migrants are forced to leave in the first place.

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That’s much more effective than wasting billions on other failing initiatives.

purplerain

I would really like to understand how the problems can be solved in easier ways than deportation?  And I would like to understand how you believe that communities “support taking on the root of the problem” – “the reasons migrants are forced to leave in the first place.” 

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And please, I am not trying to be argumentative…but merely trying to understand how you think that say, Malden, Somerville, Chicopee, Springfield, Revere and Everett are going to “support taking on the root of the problem” and addressing the reasons migrants leave in the first place.  These communities are already struggling…and I can’t imagine how they’re expected to solve the socioeconomic/war/disease etc. that is forcing these people to leave their respective countries. 

kyledeb

If they can support national policies like deportation, than they can support national policies like a more sane foreign policy.  Where there is a will, there is a way. 

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Name a problem that you believe migrants cause and I will give you an easier solution than deportation, if it is an easy solution at all.

kyledeb

if deportation is a solution at all.

raj

How about a fire department that has to explain to a “new comer” how wrong it is to roast a goat in their bathtub?

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Everyone knows that you are supposed to roast a goat on the living room floor (actually happened) not in the bathtub.

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And then there was the case of a hibachi nearly burning through the floor, and the newcomers being irate and combative for being told to “put it out.”

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Who cares about how irate the newcomer gets?  Haul out the fire extinguisher.  It isn’t really that complicated, people.

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Or how about a first responder that had to be tested for TB, because the family of the “new comer” insisted that the patient didn’t have raging TB…and he did.

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Now this is a serious issue.  But it isn’t limited to new comers.  Remember Michael Speaker, the American with TB who recently had been permitted to travel between the US and Europe on  airplanes despite the fact that he had TB.  Don’t get too uptight about immigrants who have incurable TB and might infect you, when you have Einheimers who are quite willing to do the same.

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Going down a bit

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Or how about the person who was hit by the car of a newcomer who was neither licensed or insured?

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You seriously aren’t going to contend that that doesn’t happen with legal residents (Einheimers) are you?  That would be Howie Carr kind of “thinking.”  And, quite frankly, that is why I favor having the state be authorized to grant drivers licenses to (ta da!) persons who have not been authorized to enter the US (so-called “illegal immigrants”)

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Let’s not even talk about the overcrowding in apartments – with squeezing 10-12 people in a four room apartment, with personal space delinated by sheets between the mattresses on the floor.

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Ok, let’s not.  But that is a topic for the landlord of the apartment to deal with.  Not you.  Or me, for that matter.

eaboclipper
kyledeb

I guess you’re getting fed up with me but I have to say that I liked the comment above.  Thanks for writing it.

raj

…over the last six to eight months.  You would probably be surprised at what you find.

kyledeb

on the issue, and you’ve just been turned off by the tone that I have taken and how I have flooded blue mass. group with posts.

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I don’t know what to say about myself except that first impressions are a bitch, and that others have found these posts to be useful.

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I will say that I will stop posting these “lessons” on blue mass. group, and will go back to posting on other migrant related subjects, because of the opposition people like you and other progressives have raised here.

raj

…I am not progressive at all.  I am pragmatic, as you will see below.

purplerain

Raj, you’re a brilliant debater…so these responses were a tad suprising.  The points I have made are all real and have happened in the course of my experience in a gateway community. 

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So your reponse to “How about a fire department that has to explain to a “new comer” how wrong it is to roast a goat in their bathtub?” is “Everyone knows that you are supposed to roast a goat on the living room floor (actually happened) not in the bathtub. [Not an issue for you unless it’s your house that burns down?]

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And then there was the case of a hibachi nearly burning through the floor, and the newcomers being irate and combative for being told to “put it out.” Who cares about how irate the newcomer gets?  Haul out the fire extinguisher.  It isn’t really that complicated, people. [Not that complicated?  Are you sure…because not only was it burning through the floor but through the ceiling of the apartment below.  This was far beyond get a fire extinguisher. ]

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Or how about a first responder that had to be tested for TB, because the family of the “new comer” insisted that the patient didn’t have raging TB…and he did.

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Now this is a serious issue.  But it isn’t limited to new comers.  Remember Michael Speaker, the American with TB who recently had been permitted to travel between the US and Europe on  airplanes despite the fact that he had TB.  Don’t get too uptight about immigrants who have incurable TB and might infect you, when you have Einheimers who are quite willing to do the same. [While I never said this issue was limited to “newcomers” – the vast majority of the new cases in this country is from the newcomers.  And Raj, the man who was exposed to this “newcomer” was my husband, so forgive me if I’m a little uptight about it.”

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p>  Or how about the person who was hit by the car of a newcomer who was neither licensed or insured?

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You seriously aren’t going to contend that that doesn’t happen with legal residents (Einheimers) are you?  That would be Howie Carr kind of “thinking.”  And, quite frankly, that is why I favor having the state be authorized to grant drivers licenses to (ta da!) persons who have not been authorized to enter the US (so-called “illegal immigrants”) [Raj, the “we do it too” argument used here and above isn’t Howie Carr thinking.  My kids have tried that kind of argument with me (all the other kids do it, Mom!) Giving unauthorized residents a license to drive only makes sense if you plan to give the info over to the INS.

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Let’s not even talk about the overcrowding in apartments – with squeezing 10-12 people in a four room apartment, with personal space delinated by sheets between the mattresses on the floor.

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Ok, let’s not.  But that is a topic for the landlord of the apartment to deal with.  Not you.  Or me, for that matter.  [It’s a topic of public safety that concerns everyone in the affected communities.  I don’t see Belmont or Winchester sending Revere or Somerville any money to help deal with their “newcomer” challenges in providing police, fire, healthcare and education.  Evidently there has to be a body count before you pay attention.  More’s the pity. 

raj

…the comment regarding “roasting a goat in a bathtub” was meant to be tongue in cheak, but it strains credulity to believe that the heat from roasting a goat in a bathtub would penetrate the ceramic of the bathtub sufficiently to cause much structural damage to the building.  I could be persuaded otherwise.  The portion of the comment about roasting a goat on a living room floor, I read about that a number of years ago.  IIRC, a rather wealthy Saudi family did that in their hotel room when they were tourists in the US.  It isn’t just illegal aliens.

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Regarding the hibachi and the fire extinguisher, it is probably the case that the hibachi-users should have used a heat-resistant pad (and the fumes from the charcoal are actually quite dangerous), but let’s put things together.  The issue was that the proprietors of the hibachi were incensed that they were told to put it out.  Who cares whether they were incensed?  A fire extinguisher (as I wrote) could be used to put it out, regardless of that the proprietors of the hibachi wanted.  That was the point.

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Two points regarding TB.  One, my point regarding Speaker was that it just isn’t aliens who carry TB, but Americans, too.  There seems to be a fantasy among Americans that all diseases stem from those gaul’darn furiners but it isn’t true.  The Michael Speaker incident showed that.

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BTW, I saw it reported that Speakers passport had an endorsement that he had an active case of TB.  Is that true?  If so, why was he allowed to board an airplane at all?

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Second, there is at least one vaccine that will provide at least some immunity against the TB bacillum described here http://www.cdc.gov/t…  First responders (who I admire) should be required to keep their vaccinations up to date.  That would reduce if not minimize their risk of becoming infected.

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Regarding Giving unauthorized residents a license to drive only makes sense if you plan to give the info over to the INS.

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That isn’t true at all.  Unauthorized residents who have a license to drive have shown two things.  One, that they have at least a minimal knowledge of the “rules of the road” (the written test) and at least a minimal skill in driving (the driving test).  And, to maintain their license (or at least get it renewed) they have to show some semblence of financial responsibility (insurance) in the case of an accident.

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What would you prefer?  “Illegals” are going to drive anyway.  Would you prefer that they demonstrate the three items in the previous paragraph?  Or that they just get on the road and go driving willy-nilly?

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BTW, just to let you know, I don’t want the ICE (the successor of the INS) to be mucking around in state records at all.  For reasons that should be obvious.

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