More than a dozen members of an antiwar veterans group were arrested yesterday as they protested the exclusion of their message from Boston's Veterans Day parade.
Members of Veterans for Peace lined up in front of a podium at City Hall Plaza holding antiwar placards, as color guards from Massachusetts military units and JROTC bands from across the state filed into Government Center for a ceremony, sponsored by the American Legion, to honor veterans after the parade. Some protesters wore gags, which they later said symbolized the fact that, while they were permitted to march in the parade, they were prevented from carrying signs opposing the war in Iraq.
There were some appeals to the First Amendment by some of the peace-vets, which is neither here nor there; the organizers apparently have the right to exclude whatever statement they want.
But we simply have to come to terms with the fact that many veterans have come home from war … and gosh, they don't really like it very much. Or more simply, perhaps they oppose the present one.
We've been having this discussion for forty years now. Can't we recognize the service of veterans, without having that tribute act as an endorsement of war, specifically or generally? And shouldn't our tribute at least allow for veterans to speak their minds — either pro or con? I just don't see how you can honor vets, but then deny them their voice in such an event. “Thanks for your service — now shut the hell up.”
Yeah, it would be controversial to have the Veterans for Peace march in the same parade. But as one of the organizers said, “That's democracy.” It's messy, it's contentious, it's disagreeable, but we all have to live together anyway. After all, isn't that what our troops have fought for through the ages?
If you value your freedom, thank a vet. Or better yet, listen to a vet.
The other 100 or so vets weren’t carrying PRO-Iraq signs – just their service insignia.
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Instead, loons like Joe Bangert want to wear gags, carry signs, and generally turn the Veteran’s Day parade into a 1968 peace march. Sometimes, it ISN’T all about them – are they saying that the WWII vets did the wrong thing in fighting Hitler, too?
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There is nothing APPARANT about the organizers being allowed to include whatever it was THEY were marching for, and disallowing other points of view. It is well established case law – unless you’d like pro-life advocates crashing a NARAL event in the name of free speech, too?
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Why don’t they go have their own parade, applauded by their adherents? Why must they crash the VFW parade?
I know Joe Bangert. In Fact, I know Joe Bangert very well. I didn’t know Joe was around. There were some folks looking for Joe last spring and when he became privy to this he allegedly took a trip, a long trip. So he’s back. My, my. I wonder if Joe is back on the Cape?
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Joe was one of John Kerry’s Winter Soldiers. Joe testified before congress, under oath, regarding all of the “atrocities” that he witnessed. Which is amazing, utterly amazing, since Joe was an operations clerk in a Marine helicopter squadron. The only atrocity that Joe Bangert ever witnessed was the preparation of the food at the mess hall. Joe Bangert is a fraud and a liar and a disgrace to the uniform. He has spent his entire life, since 1969, being a parasite. Always looking for the freebie and the handout. If there ever was a veteran who deserved zero respect, it is Bangert.
i fear that our hollywood-like insistence on only portraying vets (or letting them portray themselves) as people who can weather all adversities unphased sends the message to those damaged by the experience that they are failures. none of them are failures. but our society seems to value the image of the impermeable soldier more than the real soldiers themselves. we demand simplistic patriotism and movie heroes.
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i’m glad to hear that the V’sFP were there, even if they had to get arrested. They remind us that being a vet is not always so simple as we insist it to be. maybe their presence will have sent the vital message to some others that it’s ok not to be made of standard issue imaginary patriot soldier hero actor.
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good diary, Charley. thanks.
…’The Deerhunter’, and ‘Apocalypse Now’, and….you get the idea.
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Hollywood not only hasn’t shrunk from portraying vets as damaged, it’s been 50 years since they’ve made a film in which a vet was normal, not a psychopath, and able to tie his/her own shoes.
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Perhaps that’s why the image of ordinary, average veterans marching along to remember fallen comrades and placing wreaths at memorials is so jarring….
i didn’t blame hollywood per se, i blame our society for having a hollywood-like happily ever after expectation of soldiers and honor and glory, etc. as in, false expectations. our society glorifies soldiering, being a warrior, honor in combat, etc.
Laurel. Take a trip to the Wall. You can meet thousands of men who came home and picked up where they left off. They might enjoy a taste now and then and perhaps a wee bit too often, but they lived exemplary lives. That crap re Apocolypse Now and the Deer Hunter were pure fantasy.
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p> WHO ACTUALLY DEFENDS AMERICA
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On Veterans day we honor the thousands of true Americans who served and died for this country since the Great War and armistice in 1918. Who are these heroes?
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* World War I = A country of 100,000,000 people sent 1,200,000 to fight for others whose liberty and nationhood was threatened by an invader. This computes to just 1.2% of the population of this free country. Of this number 126,000 died for us and others? 1/10 of 1% !!!! The freedom of American was guaranteed by so very few heroes.
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* World War II = Of 16,000,000 Americans who served, about 5,000,000 went into harm’s way, fighting battles, manning ships, flying our planes. Of a population of 134,000,000 just 3.7% fought our fight in the foxholes, in the air and on the sea. Almost 400,000 died for this country’s freedom? 3/10 of 1% sacrificed themselves for us!!!
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* Korean War = 1,789,000 served during the Korean conflict. Approximately 500,000 fought the battles in the air, on the sea and on the land. Of a U.S. population of 162,000,000 just 3/10 of 1 % paid the price of actual combat where 35,000 Americans died once more for a nation that had virtually forgotten them? 3/100 of 1% !!!
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* Vietnam War = 8,744,000 American men and women served during our longest war with almost 3,000,000 serving under combat conditions. Of a total population of 194,000,000, 1.5% defended our nation and that of a besieged ally, South Vietnam. 58,000 names are on The Wall, a cheap price an ungrateful nation paid. Just 3/10,000 of 1% of Americans paid for freedom we still think has no price.
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* Desert Storm = In 1991, 2,225,000 Americans chose to rescue an invaded country that was the victim of a terrorist nation we would once again oppose during Operation Iraqi Freedom, just 12 years later. 500,000 American fighting men and women freed Kuwait in just 100 hours. While we lost 148 killed and had 235 more wounded a
nation of 252,000,000 got a real bargain. 2/10 of 1% served.
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* Iraqi Freedom= Saddam Hussein and terrorist thugs continued to threaten the whole
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Middle East, including Israel and Arab nations friendly to the U.S.
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p> until we said enough and removed him and his insane suicidal
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p> women paid the price to date 1 per 100,000 Americans have!!
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Who really defends our country when threatened? Never have so many owed so much to so few. Go figure! How long will the 98% expect less than 2% of its finest to continue this?
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and it was a sad and sobering experience.
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you are part of the problem, it appears. saying that all an old vet needs is a wee drinkie now and then is a slap in the face to every vet struggling with the emotional fallout of their experiences. if you’re of the “get over it soldier!” mindset, then you disrespect some of the very vets you purport to cannonize. more’s the shame on you.
I offer this to minimize the effects people like this can have on you. After reading this comment as well as being reminded by raj about this guy’s history, there are only two reasonable conclusions: a) he’s a poseur of the worst sort, living vicariously through too many viewings of assinine war films or b) he’s a sociopath.
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In other words, no veteran on this planet who is rational would make the comment this loser did yesterday.
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My money’s on wannabe poseur; it’s a lot more comforting than knowing this guy is loose and for real.
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Wrongo. By 2000, the Iraqis were completely hemmed in by the no-fly zones. Hussein didn’t even control his own country — the northern portion was under control of the Kurdish Peshmerga.
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Hussein’s Soviet-era military had been decimated in the early 1990s, and had never been re-built. No air force to speak of. The armored divisions were trying to keep Hussein in power (you think al-Sadr came out of nowhere?) It was no match for the IDF, and an invasion of a neighboring country would have triggered another wide response.
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And Hussein didn’t have any terrorist thugs — you’re thinking Iran and Syria.
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I don’t know the latest neocon excuse for the lack of atomic weaponry — are they invisible? Shipped off to mortal enemies in Iran? Shipped off to the Allawite leaders of Syria (which is equivalent to saying that the IRA would give their hidden guns to the UVF for safe-keeping)? Are they under the control of the Illuminati?
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The biggest act of hatred for our veterans is to needlessly create more, and that is what this government has done.
I never joined the VFW or American Legion because Lt. Calley (the mass murderer) was given a standing ovation at their meetings. I never supported John Kerry after he lied about a policy of mass murder inspired by our military. I never give to to self-proclaimed veteran street people after a suspiciously young “veteran” asked me for money and said he was a Vietnam veteran, “Where in Vietnam were you?”. “Tokyo”, he replied.
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Maybe the most that a veteran could receive is the promises he or she was made before enlisting. Pay, a retirement after so many years, disability and care if necessary, etc. All the fuss about veteran care at hospitals has died down and wounded veterans are still tossed on the streets because the military proclaims they had “pre-existing personality disorders”. (Then why were they allowed enlistment?) So much for the Republicans and the Democrats. It is going to cost the taxpayer big bucks to care for the wounded in this present war. I’ve heard that it may be over 650 Billion dollars. If nobody wants to pay the ante, let the wounded die on the streets of Baghdad rather than Main Street, USA. It would be more humane.
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…If the organizers of the event have a permit from the city, and if they are not accepting funds from the city to sponsor their event, they can choose who they can permit to participate in the event. Chester Dowling established that a decade ago, when he got the US SupCt to approve the right of the South Boston St. Patricks Day Parade committee’s right to exclude gays from marching under their own banner. If that is still good law (and I believe it should be) event permittees should be able to control who who they can have participate at their event.*
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*Lest anyone wonder, if the case went the other way, the gay pride organizations just might have been required to allow anti- and ex-gay operations to march in gay rights parades. Not good.
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Regarding Ms. Porc’s Hollywood not only hasn’t shrunk from portraying vets as damaged, it’s been 50 years since they’ve made a film in which a vet was normal, not a psychopath, and able to tie his/her own shoes. Ah, poor dear, apparrently you are unaware of the fact that Hollywood, das Land des Happy Ends. thrives on conflict (German, but obvious). It also thrives on fiction. If you want fiction, switch to the Rambo channel. Same with conflict. Maybe you will be able to figure out how Marion Morrison won WWII in the Pacific, without ever having served there.
the story fails to say whether any of the VFP people were members of the American Legion, the org that organized the event. if they weren’t members and this was a private event, i agree with you that they had no right to participate in the proceedings. just not enough info to know for sure.
No one has the 1st Amendment right to say or do anything on the American Legion’s behalf that the AL doesn’t want said. I thought I made that clear.
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I wish the AL would accept that there are those that have come out of their experience with anti-war sentiments, and respect them as being real veterans. They don’t have to be a pro-war organization to be a pro-vet organization.
No one has the 1st Amendment right to say or do anything on the American Legion’s behalf that the AL doesn’t want said.
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…essentially what I written.
LOL
That why, as a combat vet, I won’t join the American Legion; they are the voicebox of this corrupt and coward-laden administration. They talk a lot about what it takes to protect our bill of rights, but they are really happy to shit on those same rights. You almost expected to see these guys beaten by the gestapo.