The incredibly amusing gaffe-festival that the GOP Convention has devolved into goes from strength to strength. Former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani, for example, just dissed his own Presidential nominee by saying McCain is less qualified than Sarah Palin for the job.
“She already has more executive experience than the entire Democratic ticket,” Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor, said in remarks prepared for delivery to the convention on Wednesday. “She’s led a city and a state”
(McCain, of course, also has no “executive experience,” by this idiotic definition). It’s also very funny that Giuliani has been forced to take the position that service as Mayor of an Alaskan village is roughly comparable to, say, being Mayor of America’s largest city.
Anyway, this is an open thread for the GOP Convention tonight, and Governor Palin’s big speech (scheduled for between nine and 10: streaming live here). Will she renew her support for Alaskan independence — “Keep up the good work!” she told members of a fringe party who want the state to secede in a recent video message? Will she reiterate her assertion our invasion of Iraq was “a task that is from God?” Or, more likely, will she try to pretend that all of those awkward moments never happened.
Some early release notes from her speech are here. Best line: “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities.”
Update from Charley: I’m twittering some of the night’s festivities.
And if you want to compare this week’s festivities with last week’s, check out our Flickr photostream from Denver.
Another update from Charley: I think by any reasonable measure you’d have to say Palin’s speech was a success for her. She didn’t stumble, or look obviously lost; she hit her “populist”, small town themes; and attacked Obama pretty fiercely. I still think there’s a long way before she’s considered presidential, but she may well have fought her way into becoming a non-factor in the election — as opposed to an active negative for McCain. She reiterated her outright lie about saying “Thanks but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere, which will haunt her.
We’ll see how all that develops.
laurel says
say taht McCain would be sure all Americans can “make their own choices”. Oops! bit o gaffe there.
laurel says
you know his thought bubble said “like me!”
pikldog says
Is anyone watching Mitt? IF so, could you explain what exactly he meant by his opening metaphor about the ‘sun rising in the west’? Is this the next conservative goal after refuting evolution, they are going after that liberal idea that the Earth is round?
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p>Also, which is party of ‘big brother’? How did we ever elect him our governor???
progressiveman says
…he called from turning Washington from liberal to conservative. Maybe that is why he thinks Republicans are going to reverse the spin of the planet.
sean-roche says
And the Supreme Court as too liberal? Sam Alito?
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p>Clearly Romney’s 2012 gambit is to out ‘wing the ‘wingers.
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p>Good luck with that, Willard.
massparent says
The thing is, the “vetting” scandal is about McCain’s failure to vet a candidate new to the national stage, not about Palin.
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p>McCain didn’t do the basic background checks or make the preparations necessary to bring a new figure into the public eye. Then blames the fallout on “the Washington insider media”. The vetting question isn’t as much about Sarah Palin’s ability to fill the role, as about McCain’s judgment and leadership abilities.
laurel says
Was Huckabee ever in the military?
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p>Just how did John McCain help Huck get his school desk? What American freedom did McCain preserve for Mike?
/ scratching head /
sean-roche says
God, she’s awful.
johnt001 says
I missed most of his speech, I just got home from an Obama organizing event – all I heard was a wordy story about school desks segueing into putting McCain behind the one in the Oval Office. Olbermann just pointed out these two gems:
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p>1.) The Republican party was not founded by Abe Lincoln
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p>2.) There’s no way Palin got more votes in Wasilla than Joe Biden got for president – Biden had 12,000 votes in Florida and 18,000 votes in California, you’d need to get everyone in Wasilla vote several times to outdo him there – didn’t she win the mayor’s race with 900 votes in total?
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p>
sean-roche says
It was pretty clear that the Biden line was an exaggeration for rhetorical effect.
sean-roche says
Palin for VP because Alaska is a the beneficiary of the incredibly undemocratic electoral system.
mr-lynne says
… that they are a benificiary:
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p>
bostonshepherd says
Don’t you guys see the parallels to Obama’s resume whenever you denigrate Palin’s experience, however slim it is?
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p>The McCain team doesn’t even have to mention Obama in order for the connection to be made. It’s subliminal.
huh says
Which is why actual Democrat spokespeople are going after her remarkably tarnished record, rather than her experience (or children). Bloggers, well…
johnt001 says
For once you told the truth! Way to open…
dmac says
Serious with this experience crap? This is going to come back to haunt them. No time for training? what about Palin…she’s ready on day one I suppose.
sean-roche says
Of the delegates at the Republican convention, 1.5% are African American. Yet every fourth or fifth crowd shot seems to feature a black face. (I’m watching on New Hampshire Public TV, but I think it’s a shared feed.) Who’s editing this stuff?
huh says
The camera seems to be desperately scanning the crowd for someone who’s not white, poorly dressed, and/or on the bad side of 40.
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p>I’m 44 and think I’d be chicken there. Well, assuming I didn’t get arrested for being a homosexual… đŸ˜‰
dmac says
demolisher says
affirmative action or something, damn what a travesty
laurel says
the black delegate count at the 2008 RNC is at a 40 year low. Also, the male:female ratio is 2:1, whereas the majority of dem delegates were women.
libby-rural says
Much stronger response than the Democrats who say they don’t want to practice the politics of the past
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p>But then again – the politics of the past have brought us some of the greatest Presidents in history
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p>So here’s to the politics of the past!
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p>and the new National Enquier revelations about the next VP of the USA!
bob-neer says
From the NYT:
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p>
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p>I don’t think this is going to work: “touting her small-town government experience” just reminds people that Palin is not up to the job of VP. I think they would be much better off playing up her job as Governor. But that’s just me.
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p>Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy apparently agree with me:
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p>
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p>As to Giuliani’s speech, I think he is reminding everyone why his campaign was, “one of the most spectacular political humiliations in recent American history.”
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p>A Party in collapse, as I have written before.
libby-rural says
Peggy has already refuted your conspiracy theory
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p>http://online.wsj.com/article/…
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p>You guys are like KOS wannabes
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p>and deserve the shellacking you are taking over Palin
huh says
And what conspiracy theory?
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p>As I’ve pointed out before, Peggy’s column really doesn’t say what you think it does. You should re-read it.
libby-rural says
she has responded to the open mic LIE told by MSNBC
mr-lynne says
… go straight to the tape:
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p>
ryepower12 says
mr-lynne says
bob-neer says
for your inaccurate claim? Thanks CMD.
mr-lynne says
libby-rural says
The old ways are over – yes she is correct. You need a “Narrative” which she thinks is BS, but true anyway.
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p>And the Palin narrative has struck a chord around the World!!!!!!!!!!
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p>BMG – ALL PALIN – ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!1
johnt001 says
But without verification, it’s tough to take that refutation seriously…
libby-rural says
Rudy fires em up
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p>and the pictures of Palin’s family and Rudy addressing the BS thats been going on….
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p>You guys must be stunned
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p>I am
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p>she could say anything right now….
syphax says
She’s very charismatic, a dynamic personality.
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p>She also strikes me as more than a little crazy. That little grin she holds while pausing for emphasis? Let’s get that next to McCain’s creepy grin. Quite a pair.
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p>And is she talking to herself under her breath? Is that what I’m hearing on the feed? I sure hope not.
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p>Overall, though, she’s got game. She’s also got enough baggage to ground a 747.
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p>It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
dmac says
She is in a controlled setting giving a speech in front of supporters. I would have further assess her game in situation with say ..a less slanted crowd. When she is “turned loose” as Gergen said, I would love to see how she can perform.
mr-lynne says
… control every appearance she makes from here on out.
dmac says
the stories will just keep coming. If she is perceived as ducking and hiding I think it will hurt them more.
syphax says
As it is, she’s going a little long with the cute one-liners.
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p>And a little long in general.
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p>Can I imagine her as leader of the free world? No freakin’ way.
mr-lynne says
… has one thing going for her. She comes across (or at least seems) like someone you could picture talking to in person in your home.
dcsohl says
I’d give you “attractive”. But she did not come across as “charismatic” or “a dynamic personality.”
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p>On the contrary, I thought she seemed wooden and not at all natural reading a speech she didn’t write. It seemed pretty obvious that those were somebody else’s words.
cannoneo says
Rudy’s line about executives not being able to vote “present” very effective. Added “military unit” to list of executive positions to include McCain.
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p>Bristol and beau preternaturally poised – very likable family, who seem to share their mom’s moxy.
mr-lynne says
… so far. Seriously, this is so inane:
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p>She loves her military son. (as opposed to what exactly?)
outrageous applause
She loves her family. (as opposed to what exactly?)
outrageous applause
She loves her husband. (as opposed to what exactly?)
outrageous applause
She loves her baby. (as opposed to what exactly?)
outrageous applause
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p>oh… finally a joke about pit bulls and lipstick. Hopefully for them this goes somewhere now.
libby-rural says
Because you all set this moment up
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p>And Sarah Palin and her god old normal American Family are basking in the glory of the moment.
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p>she is killing it!!!
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p>and yes she is, how do you liberals say it, “smoking hot”
johnk says
charley-on-the-mta says
nt
libby-rural says
mr-lynne says
… “doth protest too much” comes to mind.
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p>The GOP apparently understand something known since Sophoclese: Good theater depends on the suspension of disbelief. Please tell me that that much applause for a throwaway line is an attempt to suspend disbelief. The alternative would be that that are easily impressed.
sean-roche says
That they brought Trig out over an hour before most of the rest of the family. The four-month-old was good to sit out in a noisy arena while two of the girls, the other boy, and Dad, waited in the wings.
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p>What’s with that?
they says
dmac says
proud of America…
johnk says
Very boring beginning, the one liners that were leaked out, the media’s fault. Don’t see how she is sealing the deal here and responding to the questions about her as the VP pick.
charley-on-the-mta says
but perhaps stopping some of the short-term bleeding. Good talker, not as plainly dim as, say, Dan Quayle. Questions about her experience will remain, and she’s still got to debate Biden.
johnk says
she’s not Dan Quayle.
mr-lynne says
… her ok performance, it seems to me, owes its success to the friendly ‘play along’ crowd. However, in general, she’s uninspiring in front of a prompter. She seems to have that in common with McCain. I guess we’ll have to see how she is on the stump and in a debate, if the campaign ever stops sequestering her.
johnk says
and I don’t mean by BillO. Maybe we can get a better idea how she defends herself and her decisions.
mr-lynne says
… wouldn’t do well in that setting.
ryepower12 says
and a lot of people will treat her just as warm and friendly as bill-o. A Katie Curic interview, for example, would be less than useless.
dmac says
makes her fair game now. I hope that the sexism cries don’t come when her experience or lack thereof is called out. I can’t wait.
fairdeal says
makes dick cheney look like a wuss!
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p>i didn’t think anyone could drop to the feet of big oil with more gusto than cheney or bush.
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p>i was wrong!! sarah ‘drill drill drill’ palin has outdone ’em all!
joes says
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a “task that is from God.”
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p>In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it “God’s will.”
lodger says
Wouldn’t want any spin here would you? Reality based.
mr-lynne says
… available a few days ago here. See for yourself.
strat0477 says
Gosh…who panders anymore?
mr-lynne says
… they are her words to be consumed and judged by all in evaluating her for the job.
strat0477 says
If politicians didn’t speak we could really say they’re honest!
gary says
Hey, Pelosi says God blessed us with Obama. Maybe God figured he had to shovel some of His will in the Republican’s direction, bipartisan and all.
mr-lynne says
… out old lies from 2000. Bankrupt family farms because of an estate tax? Puhleeze.
huh says
Much of the material is older than the crowd. The rest is snarky in-jokes. We had to rewind twice to catch the bit about “styrofoam greek columns.”
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p>I’m not sure having her issue personal attacks against Obama was such a good idea. As my sister just said on the phone, she’s trying to be funny, but comes off as an aging “mean girl.” Having the crowd roar at the nasty, obviously canned, lines isn’t helping.
mr-lynne says
… among the base it is her job to secure. Basic red meat speech. It seems to me that her job wasn’t outreach tonight.
huh says
But I still think she’s turning off a lot of folks tonight.
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p>The combination of the sea of white faces and forced snark read “country club” not “down home America” to me.
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p>I think my sister was a little off with the “Mean Girls” reference. Much too modern. I see her as a shoe-in for the Kirstie Alley role in “Drop Dead Gorgeous”
sean-roche says
But my wife doesn’t like her at all.
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p>She is, however, taking on a smug air that grates.
johnt001 says
noternie says
…during her debut last week was that when she got wound up she sounded a bit too much like Maryanne from Brooklyn. (Stern reference, for those in the know)
dcsohl says
Shrill’s the wrong word. Shrill implies high-pitched, and she certainly wasn’t that.
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p>But a bit grating, yes. And wooden, not much emoting going on there. Her days reading teleprompters for the Anchorage news didn’t do her any favors on that point.
centralmassdad says
sean-roche says
The sole repositories of virtue.
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p>Why do Republicans hate city folk? I’m pretty sure that some city-dwellers died in wars, too.
sean-roche says
Commentators (correctly I think) criticized the prosecution for overplaying the videotape of the beating. Eventually, the jury got inured to the horror. The tape lost its effect.
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p>I don’t think people can keep hearing the same POW tale without it becoming less compelling.
johnk says
wait didn’t this just happen last week?
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p>I think it would have been better if they had “McCain Music” playing when he entered the area WWE style.
dmac says
She made “Alaskans and Americans proud”…Its just like saying Egypt and parts of Africa
afertig says
Palin gave a great speech – she hit it out of the park tonight.
dmac says
It’s only a speech. I want to see her face the tough questions in an uncontrolled setting.
afertig says
But you also got to imagine that she’s going to going to pull the same thing for the VP debate. Here’s the Alaskan Governor and former mayor of Wasilla (and who ever heard of Wasilla before this) going up against Senator Biden, who has 20+ years of Foreign Policy and Washington Experience. If she can find the West Bank on the map, the pundits will think she did better than expectations. Republicans set the bar so low, the media trips on it.
fairdeal says
that pretty much sums up their aspirations, and their level of esteem for the american people, doesn’t it?
demolisher says
is only a speech.
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p>
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p>http://www.politico.com/blogs/…
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p>I mean right? And a movement and hope and stuff
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p>
huh says
I think she went long and nasty. Plus way too much about Alaska and OIL OIL OIL. It was certainly no “town called hope.” I’d go for a ground rule double or something similar. She got on base, but I’m betting on her getting caught stealing.
afertig says
She did what she needed to do.
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p>(1) She was a pretty good pit bull (with lipstick) against Obama. I thought that taking jabs at community organizing is especially smart. For example, most people don’t really know what community organizers do. Have you, yourself, ever worked with a community organizer? And if you have, how many of your friends and neighbors have? Knocking that and taking that unique characteristic about Obama down to the level of mayor of Wasilla is smart.
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p>(2) I thought she effectively used all the jokes made about small towns and turned it around. She’ll appeal to small town America which is where a great portion of the country lives. Playing up family, hockey, PTA, and a Midwestern accent is great politics.
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p>(3) She was nasty, and she was long. Let’s take the second critique first. This is her moment to introduce herself — everybody is watching to hear what she’ll say. She can take as long as she wants, and she finished around 11pm. Second, she wasn’t any nastier than Democrats hammering Senator McCain for having 7 homes, wanting to be in Iraq for 100 years, and thinking that middle class means you make $5 million or less. She was also funny, at least I thought so, which added a bit of sugar to the attacks.
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p>(4) She kept it simple, stupid. She didn’t have to show how experienced she is. If this campaign cycle were about experience, Clinton would have won. She did have to show that she is serious, and that she did.
huh says
I didn’t find her funny, I found her smug and sarcastic. That and the attacks are fine on a blog, but not what I want to hear from a candidate.
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p>I understand the the VP is supposed to deliver the red meat message; I just think it got to “enough already” half way through the speech. There’s more than a bit of a Shannon O’Brien in her. She’s too tough to pull off “sugar.”
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p>To re-use my comparison above, her speech really was straight out of “Drop Dead Grogeous.”
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p>Somewhere between this:
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p>Gladys Leeman: I know what some of your big-city, no-bra-wearin’, hairy-legged women’s libbers might say.
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p>and this:
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p>Voice of Documentarian: So what was the theme of the pageant last year?
Gladys Leeman: Last year? It was, “Buy American.”
Voice of Documentarian: And the year before that?
Gladys Leeman: “U.S.A. is A-okay.”
Voice of Documentarian: Can you remember the theme of your favorite pageant?
Gladys Leeman: “Can I? I’m Amer-I-Can!” People ask me where I get this. I don’t know, it’s, maybe a gift from God or somethin’.
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p>Maybe it energized the base. I thought it was nasty, recycled, and tired. As you say, though, it was probably enough.
afertig says
And as I’ve read other commentary, I’m also tending to agree with Ezra Klein’s more nuanced view of the speech who “expected more”:
I think this is quite right. It was a solid, solid speech which exceeded expectations, did all the “right” things, introduced her to the world as somebody to contend with, and viciously attacked Senator Obama. But what it didn’t do was help us see what McCain or she will actually do.
hrs-kevin says
If the goal was to rile up the Republican base and make sure they don’t stay home in November, I think she succeeded to the extent that enough of the base actually was watching last night. If the goal was to reach out to Independents and disaffected Clinton supporters, I think she failed miserably.
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p>I think the content of the speech pretty much confirms that McCain’s primary reason for picking Palin was to appeal to the right-wing. Even if he had thought that Clinton supporters might go for a woman, I don’t think that they would have written that speech if they were trying to appeal to that crowd. The fact that McCain is still trying to shore up his base during the convention, when it should already be safely in his pocket, suggests to me that his campaign is in bad shape.
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p>
progressiveman says
The crowd really got excited by degrading the Dems. I think that should be our response. So negative, not much of a vision for the US. Plus all the lies…lobbyists, earmarks, spending, etc…
strat0477 says
She took a beating the past few days, and this was her chance to retaliate.
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p>Any complaints about her being so crass will just be rewarded with a “you started it”.
mr-lynne says
… red meat speech that I’m sure played well with the base. I doubt she moved any undecideds.
bob-neer says
She was very much of that convention, not above it, which was where she needed to be to broaden the appeal of the ticket — which was why she was hired, after all.
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p>I also think a fair claim can be made that she wasn’t truthful when she said she opposed the “Bridge to Nowhere.” She actually initially supported it.
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p>Most generally, I’d say too little too late by way of introduction. Only an ideologue would vote for her based on the information that has come to light about her to date, including that speech. More background, fewer attacks, and more appeals to bipartisanship would have been better for independents I think.
demolisher says
is knockin Bob
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p>
bob-neer says
Even though she said she didn’t in her speech, as others here have pointed out? That’s reality.
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p>Why, Demolisher, a bit more BMG reading and you’ll be able to both smell coffee and vote Democratic đŸ˜‰
demolisher says
Best night of the campaign?
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p>Bob: Campaign unraveling
mr-lynne says
… Mr. 9/11 did a better job at the red meat speech, although the crowd reacted more to her (right on script). So I guess the low expectation game is in full effect if giving a slightly less good red meat speech than Mr. 9/11 while introducing yourself and not making a gaff can be called a success.
lodger says
Don’t assume the voting populace is as interested in politics as are we who frequent political blogs. I’ve heard and read that her introduction and speech made a lot of people “feel good” about her. Right or wrong, people often vote based on how they “feel” about a candidate. I think the Dems and MSM have shot themselves in the foot by attacking her so quickly and ungraciously; many felt it was unfair. Now they feel they have “met” her, and feel safe in supporting her candidacy. We’ll see.
geo999 says
I saw the speech last night with three twenty-somethings – two of them women. And they were most definitely moved out of the undecided column.
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p>The most interesting observation I heard from them is how tired they are of ambitious professional politicians, pretending to talk directly to them.
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p>They like the from PTA Mom to veep narrative, they like her energy and her no-nonsense, plain talking style.
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p>Most importantly, they see her as less calculating than Obama, and could envision her as POTUS at least as much as they could the Senator.
ryepower12 says
those three people are reflective of female voters, twentysomethings and the voting population in general. Riiight..
geo999 says
hrs-kevin says
I think that speech is more likely to scare away any moderates that heard it. It was full of way too many lines intended to get the crowd to “boo” instead of cheer and during those parts of the speech it really sounded like she was inciting an angry mob — that is not going to win over any new converts to the cause.
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p>She also spent an atypically large portion of her speech talking about herself and her own qualifications rather than promoting her running mate or attacking Obama (not that she didn’t spend at least some time doing both of those). I suppose that is to be expected given how little everyone knew about her before last week and the questions raised about what has been revealed so far, but I have to wonder if she is not going to be more of a distraction for McCain than a help. Like it or not, McCain is going to have to continue to waste time defending her to the press and to the undecided voters, and I don’t see how that can possibly help him.
strat0477 says
everybody else has been saying that she didn’t talk enough about herself and concentrated too much on McCain and Obama.
lodger says
…”we don’t know anything about her, who is she, nobody’s ever heard of her”. So she addresses those questions and now she’s not “promoting her running-mate”. Actually I don’t know why I bother with this reply because the bottom line is – anything she does will not be right at BMG and everything she does will be wrong.
centralmassdad says
Because the top of the GOP ticket doesn’t play well with the base.
mr-lynne says
dmac says
just give five votes to Ron Paul?
johnt001 says
I love it – that really says something about the Republican party this year…
fenmore says
And would somebody tell the New York delegation that:
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p>a. the Yankees have not been ‘world champions’ in 8 years, and;
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p>b. the home of the giants is actually in New Jersey
huh says
Who was that woman they hustled out of the auditorium?
sean-roche says
Or did she fail to note in her family introduction that she is a soon-to-be grandmother and that her soon-to-be son-in-law was in the audience?
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p>They still don’t know what to do with the situation. Fly him in. Put him on camera. Make sure they hold hands. But, don’t make any mention of him.
bob-neer says
That cannot have been in the script.
laurel says
McCain would be a shoe in.
lodger says
We could talk about Biden’s son, and brother, but I don’t care about them either.
laurel says
ryepower12 says
is that the media narrative – that she’s here to steal Hillary voters – isn’t actually her real purpose. I’m sure they’d love to steal a few – enough so that they went out of their way to pick a woman – but the real reason for her to be on the ticket is the base. John McCain’s the guy going after independents and undecideds, she’s going to be the candidate to energize the base.
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p>The thing is, though, that she’ll turn off independents and undecideds because her views are, well, batshit crazy not in the mainstream. Anti-choice, even in cases of rape. Fires public workers because she doesn’t like them – whether as governor of part-time mayor. Wants to ban books in library. Etc. Etc. Etc. She is far from the mainstream and anyone who would think about voting for McCane, who seems unlikely to last beyond a full term given the fact that he’d be the oldest POTUS ever, a recurring-cancer survivor, ought to know just how far out of the main she is before they go out of the voting booth. As Obama-supporting, card-carrying members of the blogosphere, it’s our job to remind voters just that.
tom-m says
Ryan- I’m curious- why do you keep spelling it “McCane”? Is there some cute little play on words that I’m missing?
centralmassdad says
He dislikes the man and his party so much that he can’t even be bothered to learn his name.
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p>A usage not unlike “the Democrat Party”
huh says
or bHO for barack, or …
centralmassdad says
I voted for Hillary, and would be somewhat more confident today if she were the nominee.
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p>There aren’t two “sides” among voters, only among candidates. Your side happens to be less bad than the other this go-round on matters of importance, and therefore should win in Nov.
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p>This does not mean that your party’s ideological worldview is anything other than wrong, and doesn’t mean that your party should govern beyond the immediate future.
huh says
I’m not a Dem and you bash “liberals” as much as any RMGer. So yes, your side.
centralmassdad says
Why is this? Because politics is an ignoble profession.
huh says
Here’s a challenge. Read your last 20 posts and tell me you’re not just another troll surfing for McCain points.
centralmassdad says
to silliness driven by the selection of Sarah Palin, which seems to have driven all of you clear off the cliff.
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p>How about my last 20 comments in reply to demolisher or MCRD?
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p>I think you just have a persecution complex.
huh says
That need for pointless personal attacks is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. It’s always you Dems or you liberals with you. I don’t get it. And again, I’m not a Dem. I realize it’s much easier to dismiss people once you’ve shoved them in a box, but it doesn’t make your arguments any stronger. Really.
geo999 says
Y’know, “cane” = “old”?
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p>So clever.
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p>Every time!
ryepower12 says
progressiveman says
…on Talking Points Memo. She has signalled that they are back to an energize the base polarizing election like 2004. It will be this kind of stuff from now until November. It probably will be their only chance but boy will it make for a rough campaign.
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p>Note – Huffington Post is calling them crazier than Bush/Cheney 2004.