We are lucky to live in MA. I have been saying “where’s the recession” for many many months now and I still feel that way. I eat at restaurants once a week (different nights) and I continue to have to wait in line. I asked somebody recently who goes to the Bruins games about attendance and he said “sold out” every night. Same for the Celtics and I haven’t heard any announcement about ticket prices at Fenway or the Patriots going down. Do people still have this much discretionary income to spend $85 for a Bruins game (especially since every game is televised)?
I still don’t know anyone who’s unemployed nor has anyone I know lost their house. My company is doing fine, albeit flat sales with no growth. I was also just reading this story… Skins land Haynesworth for 7 years, $100M… not bad in these bad times. Seems there are no complaints from the masses about athletes getting unholy amounts of money for throwing a ball through a hoop or tackling a quarterback (unlike CEOs). There is also a dead silence from people when these long term contracted players don’t perform but still get their full 7 or 8 figure salaries. Where’s the rage? And yes, we do indirectly pay their salaries.
I’m sure there are states where times are tough and restaurants are empty or closed. I’m also sure some restaurants are closing here in MA and http://www.foreclosuresmass.com/ shows there was 3,837 foreclosures in MA in the last 60 days so somebody is losing their home. But my point is I don’t feel it. My local municipality (like most) has budget issued, the Gov wants to balance his budget by raising more taxes, Pike and MBTA have budget problems… but I honestly think the economy has simply brought these organization’s financial problems to the surface. This recession isn’t causing the problem, just finding it. Much like the CDO market worked great as long as everyone was paying their bills, but without monthly payments the CDOs collapsed The Pike, T, state and towns have been burning the excess cash they received during these boom years and now have nothing to show for it. If they spent wisely during those times even they would be weathering this crisis successfully.
Do you feel the effects of the recession (personally and directly and I don’t mean the stock market decline/401K)?
david says
Without them, we’d surely be in a much worse situation, like the rest of the country! đŸ˜‰
edgarthearmenian says
sabutai says
You’ve let slip before how you’re a wealthy man, but even the wealthy usually can tell when the little people are feeling a pinch.
<
p>I’m glad things have worked out so well for you. I’m sorry that’s the extent of your vision. If you don’t think people complain about salaries, have your butler turn on the sports talk radio — WEEI is a good one — for a bit. Hear what the little people think.
<
p>I feel the recession because my students do. The homeless list is expanding quickly, and their quality of life has evidently declined.
hoyapaul says
I’m happy that you’re doing great, but I’m also sorry you are so narrow-minded to ignore what is going on in the real world. Perhaps you personally don’t know anyone unemployed or lost their house, but have you failed to read the official numbers in recent months? I think the rising unemployment rate and plummeting consumer confidence numbers are a better reflection of the real world than one defensive tackle getting a big contract.
<
p>I mean, give me a break. This post has a real “let them eat cake” feel to it.
sco says
I mean, I went to the Burlington Mall two weekends ago and I had trouble finding a parking space.
<
p>Therefore, there is no recession. I can think of no other alternative to that conclusion.
johnd says
So what is the big deal asking how the recession has effected you? And OBTW, what part of my diary said I was a “wealthy man”, because I haven’t lost my job? Because I go out to eat (with the rest of the world, that was my point)? Jeez, grow some think skin will ya.
<
p>David, the Gov has had nothing to do with it. But you’ll forgive me becasue I forgot that in politics.. “bad things” you blame on the previous administration but “good things” you take credit for. The nature of the businesses in MA is my guess why we are doing better than most.
<
p>Sabutai…I feel the recession because my students do. The homeless list is expanding quickly, and their quality of life has evidently declined.
translation… it hasn’t touched you at all, just what I thought. You still have your job and being a teacher will have it until you retire early. I didn’t ask about your students nor did I ask about homeless people.
<
p>hoyapaul. Somehow I don’t feel the love when you said you were happy I was doing well. Why the personal attack about being “narrow minded”? I acknowledged right in my post about the current foreclosure rate in MA over the last 60 days. And I’m not ignoring what is going on in the real world. I watch it daily. I took all my money out of the stock market in Feb 2008 and have been waiting for rock bottom to go back in. Now might be the time. Are you still happy for me?
<
p>I wish you all weren’t so “personally offended” that I haven’t lost my house. And maybe you should be yelling at the vast majority of Americans who have “not” lost their homes (93%) and are gainfully employed (92.4%). All I was trying to ask is how is the recession effecting you since it has not directly effected me. I suspect many here have also not been directly effected.
christopher says
Your dismissal of Sabutai really says alot. Fortunately, it sounds like he still has his job, but at least he shows some empathy for his students and their families. You, on the other hand, rarely if ever show empathy. For you the message always seems to be things are great for me: I was able to get a good education; I was raised by parents who worked hard; I was able to move out of Dorchester; Why can’t everybody else fend for themselves the way I did? Unemployment is the highest it’s been in awhile and the Dow just hit an 11-year low. I don’t understand why you rule at 401Ks as a direct indicator either. The 20 and 30-somethings can ride it out, but if you were just about to retire a 401K seems like a pretty direct hit to me. I also believe from what I’ve seen on the news that retailers and restauranteurs will tell you that business is in fact down.
johnd says
I did not say “life is incredibly wonderful for me and I don’t care about the rest of the world”. I was commenting on my personal observations and wanted to know if others had them. Back in the late 90’s I was in danger of losing my job, knew lots of people out of work and houses were being foreclosed in record numbers across the board. It felt very pervasive back then and it seemed to touch everyone.
<
p>All I was saying is the recession has not touched me, my friends, my family members and my impressions of dining and shopping were it hasn’t slowed down. Sports teams in Boston seem to be enjoying full houses with ticket prices remaining high. I know the numbers both here and for the nation. My goal was to find out how it is effecting people here. Not “are you bummed out because the market is down or because you lost money in your 401K”.
<
p>Have you been laid off? Have you lost your house? Have family members or friends suffered from job loss or foreclosure. My “dismissal” of sabutai was accurate. I wasn’t asking about his students or the homeless. I wanted “his” answers.
<
p>Have you been laid off Christopher? Have you or a family member lost their job? How has the recession directly and personally effect YOU? I was not being apathetic to the people who have had bad luck. Don’t tell me you feel bad for the people losing their homes in CA… that isn’t the question.
huh says
To quote Judge Judy, “don’t pee on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
<
p>Hint: most people think Jay Severin is an asshole. If you “borrow” his arguments (and yes, this is a direct lift), don’t be surprised if people react badly.
johnd says
but life is wonderful for me. Is that a bad thing? Do I need to be in pain? Am I an a-hole because I’m not losing my house or my job. I didn’t say I was happy about how bad things are for others.
huh says
My company was in financial services. As the industry contracted, so did our business. We went from 220 people to 75. I personally had to lay off 15. My friends in other industries have had similar experiences. The managers have all had to let long term employees go. Everyone I know knows someone who’s unemployed, including BioTech. Your particular biopharm may be doing well for now, but the writing is on the wall.
<
p>In NYC, the situation is far worse. Thousands of folks let go, rather than hundreds. I know at least 3 instances of couples (in different industries) let go on the same day. It’s not just Wall Street, it’s transportation, food services, office supplies, software, housing… ANY support industry.
<
p>Does that make the recession more “real” to you?
<
p>BTW, my only disappointment is your tendency to argue like a third grader. If you were really interested in other’s experience, you wouldn’t have titled this diary “what recession?” or dismissed every piece of contradictory input. Arguing from ignorance is an ugly thing.
<
p> If it helps, Fox just reported that the last 3 months of 2008 were the worst economically since WWII.
johnd says
Others here dismiss my first hand experiences as “anecdotal” but I believe both mine and yours have value and I would never dismiss your stories as “anecdotal” or not looking beyond your own nose. Maybe in this same world if your financial services company not only had no layoffs but were hiring ore people and growing, you might also have a differing view of the recession.
<
p>I also know there are some market forces which move outside of the recessions. Pfizer’s recent announcement of purchasing Wyeth will put some 24,000 (minimum) out of work. I complained about this acquisition (being financed by TARP money) here a few weeks ago but my adversaries (like you) tamped down my complaints saying this was normal M&A activities. So while those 24,000 people will join the unemployed, they will be there because of an M&A activity, not the recession. How long they stay unemployed will be directly effected by the recessions and maybe the pharma/biotech industry in general.
<
p>But in answer to your question, yes your personal experiences with the recession does make it sound more real.
<
p>Sorry if my title or “arguing like a third grader” disappoints you. I argue the way I do and always have. I suppose it could get better but has served me well at my ripe age. As for the title, I meant it. Obviously we are in a recession, I know it, I understand it, I can read the jobless numbers like everyone else and see the charts. I guess I did a disastrous job in making my real question clear. This recession has been and may end up being something we have never seen before. I have been trying to match up these horrible economic numbers with the world around me. And to be straight, I’m not talking about my checking balance as the world around me. I’m talking about the world I visit on sales calls everyday in New England, NY, NJ… I’m talking about Boston/Cambridge and I’m talking about the Worcester area where I live.
<
p>We have very few homes in the town (a moderate town BTW, not affluent at all). Our local credit union has not had 1 single foreclosure. I won’t repeat my other direct observations of family and sports teams. I started the diary off with being lucky to live in MA which is fairing better than most other states. So I wanted to ask everyone else out there if the recession as hitting them directly, was that so wrong.
huh says
I said nothing about Pfizer/Wyeth.
<
p>Enough with the self-pitying twaddle.
mr-lynne says
… having ‘anecdotes’ is somewhat narcissistic.
<
p>
<
p>Labeling something as “anecdotal” is not a dismissal. It’s an adjective that is either applicable or not. They themselves are not ‘dismissible’. Conclusions that drawn from anecdotes can be quite dismissible, however.
mr-lynne says
Your whining about having having people dismiss ‘anecdotes’ is somewhat narcissistic.
huh says
… near Fitchberg, if memory serves. Using his methodology you could probably make an equally valid case that 90% of the people of Mass. are white.
<
p>It’s also worth noting that his definition of “restaurant” involves Olive Gardens and Friendly’s. Even pre-recession I couldn’t explain the lines at the former.
<
p>As to the rest: Failure to comprehend impact beyond the end of one’s nose seems to be a hallmark of modern Republicanism. It’s truly sad.
johnd says
Again, if you lived in an area that was being overwhelmed with foreclosures and unemployment, would people be slapping you because you had a “biased” view of how good/bad things are? Would you hold it against them for having this view? Everything I said was true and whether we are talking about the chain restaurants (99…) or BK or higher end, I’ll stand by my observations.
<
p>I can understand people’s problems and was simply trying to sample whether BMG bloggers could add to the story… or not.
<
p>BTW, the 2007 Census showed only 86.5% “white” population in MA. If I was going by my town it would be more like 99% but my home town of Boston would be 54%.
<
p>As usual your input/comments have added nothing but I am glad to serve as a whipping boy for your repressed and suppressed anger.
huh says
My point is your anecdotes are statistically irrelevant. It’s like claiming there’s no global warming based on January’s cold snap. And yes, if I made that weak an argument, I’d expect to be taken to task. I’d also be deeply ashamed.
johnd says
Your anecdotes about your company were absolutely relevant IMO.If I wanted to “just look at the numbers” I could easily do that without asking you guys. I wanted personal experiences just like you “finally” answered with.
kbusch says
Let me get this straight. You made a comment just like this post about six months ago. It got a very similar response.
<
p>Now you wonder why you get this response.
<
p>Maybe you should post this comment every three months. Do you think you’ll get a different reaction in April?
johnd says
And my story was the same back then. Other than statistical data, I haven’t directly and personally seen much bad side from the recession. My town hasn’t laid anyone off…
<
p>And yes I would post this again if in April, May or June I see no direct consequences of the recession.
sabutai says
I feel the recession because more of my budget is going to buy more food for the food pantry at my father’s church.
<
p>I feel the recession because I am supplying more supplies (bought with my own money) to my students whose families can’t afford theirs.
<
p>I feel the recession because I spend my time helping a friend of mine trying to find a job – not easy to do in this economy.
<
p>I’m no saint, heaven knows, but I do feel the recession. Do I have to do this? Probably not, but yes I choose to do this. And for me, when people such as my townspeople, friends, and students suffer because of this economy, I do feel it personally.
<
p>And for the record, my suspicion of drugs extends to caffeine — I drink caffeine free soda, and abstain from coffee or tea.
johnd says
sounds like you are very busy. You aren’t the only person in this world with a soul and that has nothing to do what I was asking. Ya, ya many of us do the same thing with food pantries, school supplies, helping friends (husbands in Iraq). Neither do I drink, smoke, snort or “even” caffeine since my heart operation in December. Although for the life of me I can’t understand the relevance of this information regarding my initial question. The same is true about the work I do in my community concerning education and helping the hungry, I have been doing these things long before any recession has come along so I see no difference. As a matter of fact, I think we have more people giving to the church food kitchen than ever before.
<
p>Thanks for all your help on giving and helping. As a member of the community of people, I appreciate it. Sorry you took offense to me asking a very simple question.
sabutai says
This is just blogging, nothing personal. I’m just surprised that your proof of a recession is not in jobless statistics, foreclosures, and sundry other data. Your measure is anecdotal, and your best proof is when somebody in dire straits takes out time to explain their personal problems on a particular blog. Just seems an odd method for an educated man to select. If you are giving more — and I’m glad you are — then the recession is clearly affecting you personally and directly, if not immediately. Thus, you’ve the answer to your own question.
<
p>As for the caffeine thing, you brought it up with the whole decaf thing.
huh says
It bears repeating, FOX NEWS just reported that Q42008 was the worst economically since World War II. This discussion is pointless.
johnd says
Surely some the other posters here who use big words can find one to describe somebody who keeps participating in a pointless discussion?
lightiris says
<
p>You, sir, are an ass. And Bob, go right ahead and reprimand me if you feel you must. I can’t speak to the people in Sabutai’s personal orbit but I can to the people that are in his professional orbit. I have students living on the streets. No home, no food, no shelter, no nothing. Their family unit, whatever was left of it or whatever passed for it, is kaput. And when you’re 16 or 17, DSS can’t help even if they wanted to. They come to school in the same filthy filthy clothes, they haven’t showered in god knows how long, and they are fucking hungry. I caught a kid stealing a sandwich–a days’ suspension in my high school–the other day because he has no money to pay the lunch ladies. No. Money. And he was hungry–he’s 17 and he’s always hungry. So, bigshot, what are you doing to do for this kid? Tell him to get a job? He’s 17 years old, a junior in high school, and he lives with a bunch of unrelated guys somewhere near the train tracks in S. Worcester. Got a plan for him?
<
p>Two years ago these people had apartments and semi-functional parents. Now the semi-functional parents are done. They had places to live, some in trailers along Rte.20 and some in apartments. These folks are not even high-flyin’ mortgagees with Hummers and wide-screen TVs, just apartment dwellers and trailer renters.
<
p>I teach in a town with one of the highest concentrations of mobile homes in the state. Guess what? They’re rented. On Route Fucking Twenty. Rte 20. You claim to know Worcester, so how intimate are you with Route 20? They’re dirty, hungry, and angry.
<
p>What are you doing to do about it?
<
p>You haven’t got a clue. Not a fucking clue, yet you pontificate. Let me know when you’ve had to send a kid who is 17 down to the nurse because he stinks like shit and no kid will sit next to him because hasn’t had a shower in weeks.
<
p>Ban me: fuck you. Got any kids? Enjoy your house.
huh says
JohnD has insulted my family, my home state, my religion, and my sexual preference, but this is easily his most offensive diary yet.
<
p>If his input is required for “reality based commentary” please ban me, too.
tblade says
…insightful, and instructive than the post to which they are attached. If you appreciate lightiris here, don’t be afraid to give her a 6.
johnd says
You can call me names, I don’t care. I’ve called people names here too when I got mad. Sorry to hear about your students but why are you mad at me. Am I one of their useless parents, did I take their home away, their food away, their shelter away… There are boatloads of problems in the world but because I’m not suffering from any of them doesn’t make them my fault.
<
p>As of right now I’d saying I’m doing nothing for these kids other than paying taxes so there are public services to help them. And I have no plan for the 17 year old you mentioned… am I required to? I’m not a public servant, a bureaucrat or an elected official.
<
p>So it sounds like these people have seen their lives go from sucky to really sucky. Am I missing something or are you somehow trying to blame me for their situation or do you feel my asking a simple question requires me to go out and save the world.
<
p>I know Rt 20 and drive on it often. I wouldn’t want to live there nor would I want to live in the tens of thousands of trailer parks located all over the country. Who would? At this point I’m not going to do anything for you or for these people in the trailer parks.
<
p>If you want to believe I don’t have a clue then go ahead. You seem to pontificate about me and you don’t know me. And I will pontificate since this is a blog. Your story is sad but I think your story could have been told well before the recession arrived. Yes, I have 5 kids and I’ve been a great Father to all of them.
<
p>I hope you feel better after your rant although it has had no effect on me. You want to take out your anger over the plight of these kids and the situation of poor people on me. You want to get real angry, call some millionaires like Sen Kennedy, Kerry, Gov Patrick and so many other people who are very wealthy. They have lots and lots more money/homes/trusts than I have so you should be good and angry at them.
tblade says
It bears repeating: you are alternately opaque and obtuse.
<
p>Obtuse because lightiris never said or implied that it was “your fault” but yet you feel the need to write this long screed defending yourself from this accusation that you imagine. After writing a post bragging about how untouched you are from the current financial crisis, it seems like you try extra extra hard to contort yourself into the position of the victim in this comment.
huh says
Wouldn’t “I’m rubber, you’re glue” have been simpler?
<
p>OB WTF: “useless parents” ???!!!!
<
p>lightiris was way too kind.
dweir says
I caught a kid stealing a sandwich–a days’ suspension in my high school–the other day because he has no money to pay the lunch ladies.
<
p>Districts are required to provide free meals to homeless students.
<
p>Please see these links and contact your district liaison.
<
p>McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance
Nutrition Services for Homeless Students
<
p>I worked in a school district with a large transient and homeless population. We had an early-opening program that offered breakfast, tutoring, clubs, and access to the showers. I’m sure there are other successful models you could research to find a solution that might work in your school.
<
p>In my experience, you’ll be more successful doing something at the building or district level than looking for some additional external salvation. If you didn’t know already about the requirements to provide homeless students with meals, then perhaps there are other resources that you don’t know about as well?
<
p>I don’t want this to sound like a bash at all. I think in education especially, we can function like an island. Working in challenging environments can heighten that feeling of isolation and desperation. This is just a gentle reminder to to look for help within the system. I hope that you won’t run into the bad administrators and union bosses like me and my colleagues did — both of whom tried to shut down our programs.
<
p>Good luck and thank you for sticking with it.
<
p>
centralmassdad says
The sandwich could easily have been for someone else at home. That is, this might be what qualifies as grocery shopping at the moment.
dweir says
I caught a kid stealing a sandwich–a days’ suspension in my high school–the other day because he has no money to pay the lunch ladies. No. Money. And he was hungry–he’s 17 and he’s always hungry.
<
p>The context indicates the student stole the sandwich in order to eat it. More importantly, the cause of the theft was attributed to lack of money to purchase lunch. My response is that there is no excuse for the school to allow this student to go without breakfast and lunch.
<
p>The point you bring up isn’t without value. From what I’ve read about hunger in the U.S., it is typically not the children but the parents who are afflicted.
kbusch says
If you’re trying to be serious about the economy, you’re asking a question like this:
That tells us what, exactly? That biased data collection is — biased! Next we can test whether turning on the light makes rooms brighter.
<
p>You frequently seem to divide the world into “people I would know” and “other people”. So the subtext appears to be that this is not a recession for The People I Would Know. It is a recession for Other People.
<
p>You espouse here a world view primed for resentment.
johnd says
Why is nobody understanding me?
<
p>I know I am limited in my personal data collection by me, my friends, neighbors, my town… and that is exactly why I’m asking for other people’s personal datapoints. I know that numbers are numbers but some of those numbers are so dire that we should see “empty” restaurants everywhere, most AppleBees with “CLOSED” signs on the front doors…
<
p>I know I’m biased so never mind the Solomon Pond Mall is full, what about the South Shore Mall or maybe the Burlington Mall. I wen to lunch at Venezia Restaurant in Dorchester last Friday afternoon with my Mother and it was packed. Sure, only a single datapoint but I’m saying I haven’t personally seen a lot of bad signs and thusly have asked “Have you?”
<
p>If people here replied with stories of how their lives have been touched or their family/friend’s are suffering from this recession then I would have learned something. Sorry if people resent me for asking this simple question.
kbusch says
If people are spending less money, that could make McDonald’s packed. Or maybe people who used to eat at restaurants more expensive than the Venezia Restaurant now show up there. Or if people are worried, they might need to get out of the house and wander around a mall. Or maybe they take longer to shop for the same thing: two years ago they’d buy the first reciprocating saw they found, now they have to visit all six stores and compare prices. Or maybe they cannot bear not to eat out where they always used to — that would be too depressing — but they will only order the lobster on their birthday.
johnd says
I never thought about that aspect. I assume things are well for you and yours… and I truly hope so.
centralmassdad says
because you are alternately opaque and obtuse.
<
p>Hope that helps.
johnd says
Haven’t you read a little about who I am on this thread. I am stupid, an ass, a wealthy man, a “Bourgeois Pig”, self-centered, apathetic, a victim, argue like a third grader, ignorant, self-pitting twaddle, narcissistic whinings, sad, pointless, did I mention an “ASS”, clueless, insulting… so how in the world could someone like me begin to understand what alternately opaque and obtuse means never mind apply it to myself.
<
p>Talk slowly and use one syllable words if possible.
christopher says
…because of the implication you are making. When you title your diary “What Recession?”, you make it sound like since it’s not hurting you it must not exist. By that standard almost half the US states and all but a handful of countries must not actually exist because I personally have not been to them. You also say pay no attention to the stock market or even our own 401Ks. Truth is this recession hasn’t hit me that directly either yet, but my eyes are open and I both pay attention to and believe the news. Frankly, I also think your reputation on BMG for projecting your personal experience and circumstances as the way it should be for everyone plays a role in our reaction as well.
laurel says
but the entire biotech industry in this region is laying off left and right. a company that many from hers fled to after the most recent layoff just dumped 25% of their employees.
<
p>i can only assume that the spiral down will continue, since all the major companies they were to get contract work from have decided to “postpone signing pending further financial analysis”. in short, they all run on venture capital, and that money is drying up fast. the trickle-down effect will be loss of more jobs at her company once current contracts expire if new ones don’t materialize. [n.b. if she gets laid off, we won’t qualify for the COBRA tax break for me that Obama has included in the new stimulus bill because the feds don’t recognize our civil marriage, and i’m on her health plan. welcome to life in these united states of homobigotry.]
<
p>further, my brother-in-law, who is v.p. of a silicon valley manufacturer, is on furlough along with the rest of the company. they get called back periodically to do a bit of work, then out again. freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw.
johnd says
I also work in the Biotech/Pharma market and times are tough for some people. Off shore jobs are stealing good Chemists jobs at alarming rates. The good news is if money can free up a little, new biotechs will be incubated and jobs will become available.
<
p>I worked in Silicon Valley for years and they are not accustomed to a lack of plentiful jobs. But that market also has had its share of ups and downs and historically has come back. I hope both your wife and your brother-in-law regain employment quickly. That was the purpose of the Stimulus Bill and I hope like everyone else it works.
<
p>
gary says
I personally ‘deleverage’ 50 to 100K per week by negotiating debt settlements with people who are buried with credit card debt.
<
p>Finished one ‘short-sale’ this afternoon. Bought last year for $280K; sold today at $240K and moved to Maine to live with the parents.
<
p>Visit a laundry: utilities went through the roof just as people cut back on discretionary dry-cleaning. The owners financed the short fall with credit cards for the most part.
<
p>Construction. Plumber, electricians, heavy construction operators. Wanta buy a front loader cheap? there’s plenty used ones out there? Stop by a pawn shop and pick up some used tools; the shelves are full of cordless drills, hammer-drills, saw, etc…. Ask a carpenter, or electrician or floor installer, or framer how’s business.
<
p>Realtors. Call any one of them. Business is off by at least 50%.
<
p>Landlords. Delinquencies are up and so too is it getting hard to find tenants. I think the migrants are leaving the state for lack of work and it seems that here in Central Mass the rental market suddenly softened.
<
p>State and Federal workers are doing just fine.
johnd says
Part of the reason for my lack of knowledge could be I don’t go to laundries, don’t talk to realtors, don’t know many landlords (some 3 deckers for students but all are paying on time) and don’t go to pawn shops. Maybe if I visited these places I would have a better feel.
<
p>I do know carpenters and they said they often end up not working during the winter but maybe they will feel it soon when winter ends.
<
p>I do know someone trying to buy a house in town and while the inventories are rising they said sellers are not dropping prices. I also have a house on the cape and have been watching prices there which are staying pretty flat so far, but time will tell.
hrs-kevin says
Instead of guessing, whenever you go into a restaurant or shop ask them if the recession has affected their business.
<
p>When I have tried, this I usually here about how their business has dropped off. But if you want to just go on eyeball evidence, we went out to dinner at a nice restaurant in Cambridge. At 8pm on Saturday night there was no line (we had no reservation) and plenty of empty tables. In good times, this restaurant would have had an hour wait. We have observed this at many restaurants in Boston and Cambridge.
<
p>My wife and I still have our jobs, but both our employers have had layoffs and cutbacks. I know several people who have lost their jobs and have had a tough time finding new ones. Someone on the commuter rail told me that when they drive into work downtown that the parking garages are much emptier than they were several months ago. I also happened to notice that the Prudential building appears to have a big block of vacant floors as evidenced by the big dark band in the middle of the building at 5pm.
<
p>One upside was that the low interest rates have allowed us to refinance our mortgage and save some money.
<
p>Also, why doesn’t losing half of your 401k/IRA/investments not count?
johnd says
I have not asked the owners how business was. And please remember, I didnt say there wasn’t a recession, I was commenting on some signs I see which don’t add up. Obviously the numbers on the recession border on a depression and that was not my point. Even if you read my initial diary I wasn’t suggesting the recession was a lie.
<
p>Congrats on the refinancing. There will be a number of opportunities like this coming up which people should take advantage of.
<
p>I guess my comment of the 401K… was that these losses could hit people whether we were in a recession or not. They are a direct effect of the market downturn but I understand that the markets turned because of the economic slowdown. In other words people have lost money in their 401Ks with no recession before.
huh says
Here’s your second sentence in this diary:
<
p>
<
p>and here you are above:
<
p>
<
p>Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an ass then to open it and confirm it.
johnd says
You forgot to cut/paste this sentence from my initial post too.
<
p>
I don’t think you are stupid, in fact you guys are the ones doing all the name calling! But don’t worry, I have given up trying to ask this crowd about this situation. Obviously you cannot get past some inner anger you feel about anyone who isn’t in dire straights (unless they are rich Democrats).
<
p>So why do you bother with me huh? A wicked smart person like you must know some psycho-babble about avoiding the stimulus… and yet you never “skip” my posts. Funny, because I try to do my fair share of sharing of energy conservation, saving money, making money, community advice… posts but I rarely see you jumping in on those posts. Do you just like to fight? Lob hand grenades and fight for causes but skip all the boring shit?
hrs-kevin says
Duh
<
p>And when was the last time the market dropped 50% without a recession?
tblade says
So? At the times you go to restaurants they seem just as crowded. What about the times you are not there?
<
p>And just because people are there doesn’t mean that they spend as much as before? Do they order just appetizers over drinks? Do they order fewer drinks and skip appetizers and desserts when ordering an entree? As for waiting in line, whether it is three people dining at a four-top or four people, the wait time for that table to turnover will be about the same even though the check size for that table will be smaller with three diners.
<
p>The bottom line is the question of whether the restaurants have seen growth in the average check size and total revenue or if their check size and revenues have shrunk; neither points of data can be gleaned from your irrelevant observations about how you have to wait in line.
<
p>Also, ask the servers how they are doing in tips compared to years past. Ask about their weekend afternoon shifts and how Monday and Tuesday nights are.
johnd says
I called a friend who owns 2 restaurants in Worcester and asked how he was doing. He owns sandwich shops and said he was doing very well. He said it is often slow during Jan/Feb from the holidays so he was down slightly but no more so than previous years. All in all he said he was happy with business right now. However, I believe a sandwich shop may be benefiting from higher end restaurants shedding their business to a lower level sandwich shop.
<
p>And Tblade, as I have tried to say numerous times. I know there’s a recession and was simply trying to find out if it has actually hit any posters here since it has not touched me directly. I’m not questioning whether we are in a recession.
gary says
Here
johnd says
Again, for about the 20th time… I have not said the recession does not exist. What I have tried to say is there are not many signs of this recession directly effecting me or my family. My brother works for BFD… does he know there is a recession, of course, is his job in jeopardy, no. He just bought a new truck last week and has a son going to college in September. He’s not rich but the recession hasn’t directly hit him (yet). The recession could end up hitting me too eventually and that wasn’t my point. It was is it touching you first hand now.
<
p>Apparently, much like discussions about race, very few people are ready to discuss this heated subject without making venomous persal attacks. I hope this recession continues to NOT effect you and your families “directly” as most of you sound like you have jobs and have not lost your homes… which was just the point I was making.
kbusch says
You consistently prove unprepared to discuss race and discuss it at every opportunity. (You’re too busy.)
<
p>That might explain the venomous “persal” attacks.
johnd says
since the kids were very needy and I’ve barely had a minute for myself. I was trying to discuss race but I was trying to say (and you know I don’t always write what I’m trying to say) that “emotional” issues are hard to discuss on this blog because people get so heated up about the subject matter.
<
p>In this case about the recession, after all the ranting, name calling and venting, only about 3 or people actually replied with first hand examples of how the recession was effecting them. Everyone else was jus yelling. OBTW, I am not invoking “victimhood” by saying this, only commenting that the majority of the discussion ends up not being about the actual question I asked.
kbusch says
I pick on your typos because they are a clear, measurable sign that you don’t think about what you write or review it. Why so touchy? Wasn’t it you who suggested this?
However I think you meant “thick skin”.
<
p>Must we really rehash the reason no one answers your questions? I’ve already commented on why this diary was devoted to a stupid question — and it was the same response as you got the last time you posed this question.
hrs-kevin says
It is usually considered uncool to make fun of people’s spelling mistakes and typos on the internet unless the perpetrator is calling out other’s typos.
kbusch says
In fact, there is a nameless contributor who produces them more consistently than JohnD. I leave that person alone.
johnd says
huh says
centralmassdad says
johnd says
Many times I’ve read my posts numerous times and still make typos. The thick skin comment (at least on my part) is more about the content of the argument vs. the presentation (ex. I’ve never scolded anyone for using who’s instead of whose).
<
p>Yes, we are done here. I still think it was a good subject but I will admit I could have worded it better to get the results I wanted. I could have said numbers (unemployment) and labels (recession) are broadly applied. I could have showed MA unemployment compared to the US. Then I may have compared within MA the urban numbers compared to suburban. It is not uncommon for large densities of certain data to be concentrated in specific areas and therefore cause the “numbers” to look bad for entire area while in fact you have pockets of high, medium and low for any metric. I could also have said the demographics of any particular area may have a big impact (low income having no savings to fall back on…).
<
p>Of course, if I went through and did all this, I wouldn’t have had any question to ask in the diary. Plus, I was hoping that many of you smart people could have answered this way too. That would have been dialogue in my book. That is the type of discussion that would have brought out maybe another 100+ metrics of why I may be lucky enough to be living with no “direct” adverse effects from the recession (like many of you). It also may have brought out “signs of the recession” that people reported which may have been pure symptoms of our society (meaning we have lots of poverty, illiteracy, hunger, healthcare and social spending deficiencies… which were there long before any recession came along). But the recession gives many people a whipping boy to blame for their miseries.
<
p>On the contrary, many people in fact are viewing the recession as a great opportunity (stocks being low, housing being low, consumer products prices dropping and politicians seizing the crisis…). It’s all relative (basis of my diary).
<
p>I won’t be the first messenger beheaded for people not liking the message. I am no victim here. I wrote this diary willingly and if it failed, then it failed because I wrote it in a way that was either too snarky, too smug or “opaque and obtuse”. So I will take the critiques as being stupid, an ass, a wealthy man, a “Bourgeois Pig”, self-centered, apathetic, a victim, argue like a third grader, ignorant, self-pitting twaddle, narcissistic whinings, sad, pointless, did I mention an “ASS”, clueless, insulting, “Positively Columbian in its determination”… who makes typos and try to keep learning. Thanks for your time and your patience.
kbusch says
You asked this question before. You got feedback on it. You didn’t take that feedback seriously. So you got the same feedback again. This time with more heat and from more people.
<
p>What you appear to learn from feedback seems too primitive. You take away, “You don’t like me.” Or at best, “I’m stupid.” You don’t take away any of the content. If you took away more of the content, you might get some praise and less invective. I’d be first in line to hand it to you.
<
p>This could have been an interesting post about how recessions don’t spread themselves evenly over the entire population. Who gets spared? Why? Who profits? Why?
huh says
Maybe his posts would be shorter as well.
huh says
It’s all about the messenger. I’ll say it again – if you set out to offend, don’t be shocked if people are offended. This ain’t talk radio.
sabutai says
I’ve often seen it heard and said that the Earth is round. However, anywhere I’ve been, it looks flat. As nobody I’ve ever met convincingly claims to have flown, sailed, or walked around the globe, I am forced to presume that the planet is flat.
bob-neer says
Positively Columbian in its determination despite all objections, one might say.
tblade says
Like Pablo Escobar?
kbusch says
christopher says
References to the South American country should be spelled Colombian (with an O as the second vowel).
kbusch says
I think Christopher Columbus was meant with the roundness of the world being under discussion, but you’re persistent as well as I recall.
christopher says
My point was that ColUmbian, which was used here would refer to Christopher, while ColOmbian would refer to the country.
tblade says
I was being willfully obtuse for the sake of gratuitously comparing JohnD to the famous narcotraficante. đŸ˜‰
<
p>On another note, does this comment invoke the old 75 comment rule for automatic front page promotion, or was that raised to 100? Either way, I wouldn’t mind seeing this thread getting a waiver for that rule.
kbusch says
So it’s not okay for conservatives to be perstent on this blog… How about KBusch and his on and on complaning about my being obtuse… Another persal attack from you and your team of JohnD attackers… Do you do anything else? You compare me to a crimnal. Does the ad hom make you feel better? Why don’t you go set up a basketball camp in Culombia, tblade, and see how well that solves the narcatics problem. I bet you’re going to blame it all on Bush and the rich CEOs. I have NEWS FOR YOU! The One is now President. The media bent over for him so now it’s his problem. Why hasn’t he solved it? Why didn’t he and Pelosi fit it into her Stimulus Bill? Happy yet?
<
p>So I’m supposed to feel bad about these people taking drugs. I don’t take drugs. No one I know does. My family doesn’t. Now I’m going to have to pay extra taxes to pay for basketballs for these druggies. They can’t get their lives together without digging into my wallet. Why don’t YOU pay for them?
<
p>So go ahead. Call me names. I don’t care. I get called names a lot. Doesn’t bother me. We’ll see how things turn out in 2012 for Pelosi and The One.
<
p>“Can’t we all just go away?”
kbusch says
Forgot to triple all the question marks.
tblade says
It’s scary how good you are at that.
johnd says
Scared me for a moment, thought I wrote a post under your name and forgot. I may have said in the past that you have no sense of humor but I was obviously wrong. I tip my hat.
<
p>How did it feel? Could you feel your arms growing longer as your knuckles starting dragging on the floor? Did you feel like picking up the phone and saying “Mega-dittos from KBusch…”?
<
p>Thanks for the glimpse into the mirror.
christopher says
You mean you’re not “teaching the controversy” to your students and giving the flat-earth theory equal time? Didn’t you get the memo? You’re supposed to teach that Magellan and Drake were frauds right after you finish teaching that the universe was created in six days!:)
kirth says
From where I sit, none of these self-proclaimed “conservatives” appear to be genuinely interested in conserving anything besides the ability of corporations to do whatever they please. I don’t see them conserving in the Teddy Roosevelt sense. I don’t see them conserving in the protecting-the-Constitution sense. I do not see them expending any effort toward limiting Government intrusion in individuals’ lives, or taking personal responsibility for what they do, or exhibiting moral values.
<
p>So what is all this noise about conservatism?
midge says
They may be indirectly affecting you, JohnD, without realizing it.
<
p>My boyfriend is unemployed, very skilled, has not been able to get a job.
<
p>My father’s company informed him of no bonus this year.
<
p>The University’s hiring-freeze has prevented a number of hopefuls from furthering their education with free tuition. While this is a great benefit, they have to do it 1 course at a time- not ideal, but the compromise you make when accepting the position.
<
p>Former students/teens of mine have had to pull out of school.
<
p>Price of food is way up.
<
p>The T is way more crowded on morning commutes.
<
p>The psychological toll and stress of finances and careful budgeting should not be overlooked.
<
p>And finally, what no one has mentioned yet is the significant budget cuts to state and federally funded programs- I know quite a few organizations I work with directly that have had to do massive overhaul in their organizational structure, services provided and reach of the programs, thus affecting more lives than you might want to consider.
<
p>For those who are doing the important work of donating to food pantries, etc., the sad truth is that the number of families seeking assistance from these places and others is on a significant increase. Keep it up!
<
p>On the flip side, places are reporting an increase in professionals volunteering and providing skillsful services to small non-profits and organizations. These volunteers will disappear as soon as they find a job though.