Captain Richard Phillips, a Vermonter, was rescued from pirates today by the Navy. Three of the four pirates were killed, and one is in custody. No U.S. sailors were injured.
I’d say this is a big boost to the Obama Administration.
First, it has won him some grudging praise from conservative commentators. As one wrote on the Volokh Conspiracy,
I’m also surprised–pleasantly so, I add–that Obama actually allowed the Navy to act. Very surprised. I didn’t think he had it in him.
Of course, this commentator’s attitude is a bit ridiculous, as President Obama is in the midst of prosecuting two wars, but still, every little dose of reality helps.
Second, the Administration has taken firm stand on piracy, at least where the ship involved is a U.S. vessel. This sets an important precedent that, one hopes, will make pirates off the coast of Somalia think twice before attacking a U.S. ship and may have the healthy effect of causing shipowners to consider registering their vessels in the United States rather than in other countries, which could help reverse the long-term decline in the U.S. commercial fleet.
Third, by capturing one of the pirates, the Administration has the opportunity to model the use of criminal law to defeat a threat to international peace and security caused by non-state actors–sound familiar? Under the U.S. Code,
Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by
the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the
United States, shall be imprisoned for life.
So good for the administration!
TedF
Good outcome ALL around.
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p>BTW – I read THIS BOOK and would recommend it to ANYONE interested in the issue (As opposed to the crisis).
A truly amazing, smart, well though out rescue! Great job US Navy and President Obama. I am so proud I could I just shout it out. Thanks for bringing our country a notch back up in credibility. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! : D
It would be most embarrassing to fail after the French success. Really, news articles were reading like an Ayn Rand novel. Now if we can do away with spying on our citizens, imperial wars, torture by proxy and politicians as lapdogs of the banksters…
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p>Oh, and bowing to foreign kings, that really makes my jaws tight. Maybe this is a 1st step…
The bowing to foreign kings isn’t a big deal to me…respecting another doesn’t mean surrendering to them. Plus, after a president who liked to kiss them on the lips, it seems not as bad…
I haven’t seen footage and I can’t help but think this is one of those things easily exploited by Obama’s enemies here at home. Also, what form did the bow take? I assume it was not a full genuflection. I often greet people in passing with a slight nod of the head that I suppose could be taken as a bow, yet I’m not in any way indicating submission when I do.
Bowing to an Arab king? Whose country does he represent?
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p>The AIPAC conference is coming up. He’d better show more fealty to Israel there than to Saudi Arabia or be a one term president. No yammering this time about summer camp. He can start by pledging support for Israel with funds, weapons, and military support against Iran.
I can’t tell if this is snarky or not. One of your previous comments seems clearly over-the-top, since it calls for the U.S. and Massachusetts to criminalize Holocaust denial, which of course would be unconstitutional. On the other hand, another of your comments seeks donations for a charity that seeks to benefit the IDF.
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p>If you really are a supporter of Israel, then my advice is to drop the arrogant swagger and remember that the President doesn’t owe “fealty” to any foreign country, including Israel.
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p>If you are being snarky to make a point about the influence of the so-called Israel Lobby, then I advise you to chill.
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p>TedF
A safe outcome for Capt. Phillips was my #1 priority and killing the Pirates was #2. Being a MMA graduate myself and having Phillips as an underclassman gave me a personal connection to this ordeal. I was in contact with classmates on a daily basis and I’m sure there are thousands of MMA graduates and millions of US citizens who will sleep better knowing this particular event is over.
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p>I hope Obama can begin a process of meeting with other nations over how we can stop this modern day pirating activity and put these people where they belong… dead.
Piracy only continues when it is profitable.
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p>In Somalia, tragically, sadly, and really dangerously – the only growth business seems to be piracy.
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p>Every ransom paid spawns more piracy. I hope the combination of a dead pirate – and no ransom – reduces the number of pirates.
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p>Piracy is not business. It is theft.
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p>I am very very very glad Captain Phillips, who placed his men’s lives before his own, and showed all of the characteristics of a real leader came out of this alive, and did not have to be a martyr to honor.
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p>I am not sorry a pirate, who was willing to place his life and the lives of others at risk is dead.
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p>He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword, MATT 26:47-55.
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p>Now, if somehow NO ONE paid those pirates ransoms any more, and there was “Q Ship” type program set up:
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p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q…
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p>Yup – JohnD – I know about “Q Ships” and that program, brought into the year 2009, may be what is needed to extinguish the plethora of Somali pirates and their home-grown crime wave.
Those scumbuckets don’t deserve to live. They have no conception of the value of life.
Those bastards who don’t value life!
But why save their lives, if they’d just as soon kill you as look at you.
Let me try and speak slowly, in hopes that it will be easier to understand:
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p>Because that is the difference between us and them.
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p>We are supposed to be the civilized ones, remember?
The Somali pirates generally treat their hostages well. They’re in it for the money and an alive prisoner gets a bigger ransom than a dead one. It’s essentially a criminal operation, not a political one. The reason why it thrives is there’s no effective government in Somalia to go after them.
Just trying to picture it, : >
and many Navy alumni (Father and 6 uncles were in Navy) so my Mother called me as soon as she heard the announcement and yes I was literally standing and cheering.
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p>I hope the Somalians stop their piratical activities but if they don’t then I do hope there will be many more pirates enjoying the modern version of walking the plank.
No torture? No imprisoning of innocents? No offering bounties to illiterates, and shipping away anyone they bring in? No press conferences?
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p>Sure, they did the job, but how is a conservative supposed to enjoy success without the attendant incompetent bullying?
They could have arrested all four pirates, thus avoiding any casualties. That would definitely have been a worse outcome.
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p>I’ll be that guy-let the egg-throwing begin.
First off, I learned the details of this from a press conference that was carried live on foxnews. Bounties to illiterates seems rather silly, unless you consider that we might ever consider enlisting the help of pirate insider types from the Somalia area.
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p>And the guy they imprisoned is as plausibly innocent as anyone picked off the battlefield in Afghanistan.
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p>For Pete’s sake Sabutai, I know you’re smarter than this.
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p>
“Bounties to illiterates seems rather silly”…I’m sure you mentioned your problems with that strategy in Afghanistan that led to the imprisonment of innocent men in Bagram and Guantanamo, but I just missed those comments and posts.
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p>For what it’s worth, those of us who follow the news realize that there are very few Afghanistani “battlefields” in the sense of the killin’ movies conservatives love, and most of these men are picked out of houses and villages, if not nomadic camps.
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p>Personally, I learned about this via the statement the president released, which was a nice contrast. I don’t doubt Bush’s people would have had him driven to the nearest assemblage of men and women in uniform so that he could stand before them and mumble about a victory in the war of…something.
… but then, if the gitmo guys are so innocent, why hasn’t president Obama released them yet?
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p>http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a…
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p>I half expect you to say that we tortured that out of them!
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p>Just remember: the US is always the bad guy. Thats why you want to expand government so much. That will fix it.
thanks for the story (check the date).
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p>I thought Obama said that we were supposed to have a trial to convict the bad guys. Unlike Bush. How do you get to release everyone from that? Well at least we now have a president how knows what he is doing. Not some moron saying “we’ll smoke em’ from their holes”.
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p>We have someone who does blab stupid comments, just quietly does the job.
200 miles off the coast of Somalia at 8:00PM covered with fish chum. Keep kicking mate. Obama did well on this one.
That’s what I am interested in. I understand the eye for an eye thing you have going on. It is very personal for you. I have a close family friend who worked the ships years back. He did it for about 10 years when he lived in the Mediterranean. He did tell me that it was not as bad back when he did it, but the ships are not protected at all. It is very easy for these pirates to do what they are doing. But at the same time, these pirates are sitting ducks out in the water if these ships had a means of protecting themselves much of this activity would not happen.
Tough call to arm merchant ships though. I wouldn’t want to be trading bullets with anyone wile sitting on a tanker full of gasoline, oil or other flammable cargo. I would prefer a multinational force to patrol those waters and enforce a safety zone until further notice. Maybe even a “no-boat” zone.
good luck with that.
My new theorem for talk radio based entities:
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p>For every problem there’s a loud angry and simple, but completely unrealistic solution.
If we want to employ satellites, drones, floating radar units… or simply stick 2 heavily armed Marines on every US flag ship (there aren’t that many of them).
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p>Did you have any ideas or were you just in scuttle mode today?
Who pays for this, again?
Jobs, jobs, jobs… Obama is looking for jobs for people so how about the Gulf of Aden?
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p>OR
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p>We could hire illegals in Dinghies to patrol the entire Somalian coast, 10-20 Dinghies per mile and pay them $25/day, equipped with semaphore flags and BK value meals… how much would it cost?
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p>OR
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p>Hire ACORN to patrol the area.
One some level this is not a terrible idea. The bulk of the US flagged merchant fleet that far from US waters is serving military bases or on some sort of Govt mission anyway.
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p>On the other hand, though, what if Panama, or some other flag-of-convenience country decided that they were going to let their sailors carry weapons? How comfortable would we be letting those ships call on US ports?
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p>I think convoys are the way to go with this. There’s enough demand that this could even be done on a schedule. Anyone who wants to be escorted to the Suez Canal by a gunboat, meet at these coordinates at this time. Heck, I bet you could get a pretty decent international force to help with that.
Interestingly, one of the reasons ships aren’t armed currently is the shipping companies don’t want to pay for the liability insurance. A solution with a shared protector seems like a viable alternative.
JohnD wants to kill him.
I want to get information from him.
That phrase mean anything to you? No? Okay.
But, frankly, what information could the captured pirate have that we don’t already know or that we could act upon?
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p>The guy is basically a member of a organized crime syndicate over which we have no jurisdiction on land. I’m no expert in international maritime law, but as I understand it, we have UN authorization to combat piracy on the seas, but that any internationally recognized authority ends at the coastline.
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p>So, let’s say the captured pirate names names. What then? Do we report them to the Somali authorities? If there were any to report them to, there probably wouldn’t be so much piracy in the first place.
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p>Now, I’m not saying we return to the old days and hang him and leave his body up as a warning to other pirates, but I’m not sure interrogating him is really going to add much to our understanding of Somali piracy.
Why are we so pleased that the pirates are dead? Personally, I’d have preferred that we captured them alive, tried them, convicted them, and threw them in jail.
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p>Obviously if there was a firefight with US Troops, I’d rather “the other guy” get killed instead of our guys. But still, I’d prefer nobody gets killed if we can capture the enemy alive.
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p>I just don’t understand the bloodlust from this group. Then again… having read who was pro-dead-pirate, it doesn’t seem to be from the liberal majority; rather generally from the moderate and/or conservative minority.
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p>Carry on.
So we can pay for a trial for years? Pay for imprisonment for years or life? Turn around this poor excuse for a human to become a “productive member of society” maybe driving a cab in Boston? Because he’s giving the world a superb image of Somali? Why let people like this live?
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p>Bury him just like we should bury any other person who intentionally is willing to kill innocent people (too many to list).
where those who use force to keep us safe aren’t the same ones who decide guilt or punishment of the accused. I believe in our judicial system. I believe that a jury trial is important for determining guilt in our society. Also, because I believe that nobody deserves to die for a crime. Nobody. Ever. I’m anti-death penalty.
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p>So look, it sure seems pretty open and shut — the pirates violated all kinds of laws, and I would expect a trial would find them guilty. Then we’d have allowed a civil society to trump might-makes-right.
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p>Piracy gets life imprisonment, so I’m not interested in turning around the person to make him productive in society. I am interested in treating him — like all people — with a minimum level of human rights, even if he didn’t offer others the same respect.
Isn’t America great?
I’m opposed to most death penalty of the life-for-life variety and would need an airtight non-circumstantial case to use it. The most evil of the world who take multiple lives most deserve it and if I were a juror I may even sentence to death. However, I would never cheer on hearing the news of a death – that is inhuman.
Had things gone wrong and Capt Phillips was killed and the asshole pirates were killed, I would not be cheering. Is that more clear? HAving said that I have certainly applauded the death of evil people (Ted Bundy to name one). So I fess up to being that inhumane.
Stomv, since this was my post, I’ll clarify my view on this. I don’t share the sentiments of Billxi or John D, and I noted in the post that the punishment for piracy is life imprisonment, not death. That being said, since it was apparently necessary to kill the three pirates to save the life of Captain Phillips, I suppose I’m glad, in a sense, that they’re dead. In cases where it’s reasonably possible to capture the pirates instead of killing them without putting the lives of sailors or hostages at risk, I hope the Navy will capture them. I do think it’s necessary to do one or the other, rather than paying the pirates off, as the shipping companies have been, for the most part, content to do. The United States’s last experience (as far as I know) with pirates for profit was in the Barbary Wars. And as we learned then, paying tribute to pirates becomes a hard habit to break.
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p>By the way, do I fall into the “liberal majority,” or the “moderate and/or conservative minority?” Just wondering.
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p>TedF
I detest war and violence, though I am not an out-and-out pacifist. While the pirates counted other people’s lives as cheap and to be bought and sold, they plainly also counted their own lives as cheap. Therefore their deaths are the plain result of that.
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p>I don’t glory in the violence itself, but I do appreciate a victory against lawlessness and barbarism, under daunting odds.
How long will it take for the “hand wringers” in our society to make sure the pirate that lived is getting his full rights to treatment and a trial?
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p>How long will it take for somebody to craft the pirate’s message about a poor sixteen year old, living in poverty just trying to make a better life for his family. They will put his story on Barbara Walters complete with a bio, pictures and soft music?
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p>Undoubtedly factions in our society will blame this on George Bush’s policies.
Just wondering where Skipper stands on women’s choice.