Hat tip, The Big Picture, and The Economist. Of course, a big part of the reason unemployment remains high is because Obama has cut so many government workers. Bigger government, these days, in general, more successful economy. Just ask China, or Sweden, or for differently winged readers, libertarian paradises Eritrea and South Sudan: reality bites.
Please share widely!
danfromwaltham says
and the economy was rocking and rolling by this time in his term. Why is not his image on Mt. Rushmore? Which reminds me, anyone see the classless acts of Obama’s guests a few months ago, they had their photos taken in in front of Reagan’s portrait, and they raised their middle finger. They must be a barell of laughs at a party.
whosmindingdemint says
and a program
kbusch says
The blues are confusing. Let’s look at numbers: http://www.opm.gov/feddata/historicaltables/totalgovernmentsince1962.asp
Also on unemployment: Google’s useful site
Kosta Demos says
I don’t know about you, but I lived through the Reagan nightmare. Let me assure you, at this point in his first term the economy was in free fall. The only thing that saved his ass was a binge of deregulation, and deficit funded giveaways to his cronies. We almost cleared the wreckage under Bush 1 and Clinton (and that only by virtue of a lucky streak at the Finance Casino), only to have Bush 2 shove our pedal boat back into the Tunnel of Terror. Please don’t try to peddle your Reagan hagiography here. That grinning bastard gutted the public sector and destroyed our manufacturing base. Morning in America? Oy, what a hangover!
whosmindingdemint says
…
danfromwaltham says
Ok BMG, class is now in session.
Kosta wrote Reagan gutted mfg. in the U.S.A. Need I remind everyone ( except johns, he already knows this, I am sure) that it was RONALD REAGAN who put tariffs on Japanese motorcycles to protect Harley Davidson, who was on the verge of going under. Let me know if you need links or YouTube video of RR at a Harley plant.
With automobiles, the Japanese imposed ” voluntary quotas” in the number of imports shipped to th U. S. REAGAN was a conservative with a heart and his policies showed it. At this time in 2004 , the economy generated over 300K jobs. Compare that to Obama.
Some bow to foreign leaders, others demand the year down a wall imprisoning Berliners.
Finally, it was Clinton, Kennedy and John Kerry who signed/voted for NAFTA and GATT. Kosta, look at your own party as the culprits who gutted mfg. in this country.
Class dismissed.
sabutai says
I’m trying to give your comment some attention and fair play despite your self-defeating condescension. Can you back up anything you say with numbers?
danfromwaltham says
http://www.americaneconomicalert.org/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=1134
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2011/02/06/nyt-250k-jobs-report-1984-surprisingly-strong-growth-despite-recent-sign
Below is the YouTube, go to 3:50 mark, Reagan didn’t say tariffs, he called it breathing room. What a class act, he didn’t credit himself (hello Obama), he credited the comeback on the owners and workers.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHE5ym6ShkA
whosmindingdemint says
That Reagan was a funny guy. If I were him I’d rather talk about Harley than Iran-Contra too.
Reagan didn’t say tariff because it was a TARIFF! Duh.
from NYT:
Tariffs were imposed in 1983, and Harley reorganized its plant here under a system that borrowed heavily from Japanese styles of management. The system, which stressed worker involvement in the manufacturing process, became a model for many other companies, and by last March, one year ahead of schedule, Harley asked the Government to remove the tariffs. President Starts a Motorcycle
”That’s quite something for an old ex-horse cavalryman,” said Mr. Reagan, who appeared in a number of Western movies during his acting career. At a forum with workers and executives in the factory’s cafeteria, Thomas Gelb, the vice president for operations, told the President that Harley had discovered that Japanese management, not culture, was the key to their success. ‘We Were the Problem’
”We realized we were the problem – the management,” Mr. Gelb said.
That Mr. Gelb was the only honest guy in this crowd, including the old ex-horse cavalry guy/ movie star.
Tariffs – price a new Harley lately?
danfromwaltham says
Is determined by supply vs. demand. People must find value in the product, no? Oh wait, to be fair, Demintfan must want price controls. I owned a Harley, when it was cool to own one.
So you mentioned Iran-Contra, not sure why, but that is fine. America got to see a true American hero, Lt. Co. Oliver North. He made mincemeat out of the congressman at the hearings, and Reagan’s popularity increased after his testimony. One thing I am sure you don’t know, Demintfan, is the fact while serving in Vietnam, He was awarded two purple hearts, bronze star metal, and a silver star. Guess what? He could have received more purple hearts, but he refused them so that he could stay and lead his platoon for the full year. Contrast that to your favorite senator who lost to Bush in 2004.
whosmindingdemint says
I sense a hint of desperation in your tone – tut, tut.
Yes, Dan, supply, demand and tariffs.
It is a shame North mucked up such an honorable career, isn’t it?
You know why I mentioned Iran-Contra – that was the issue that the Reagan administration was trying to bury, under a pile of Harley Davidsons.
BTW: in that Youtube video, did the ole cavalry guy seem a bit dotty to you? Thought so.
danfromwaltham says
Learn anything? Just The Gipper doing his thing, a time when we walked with a bounce in our step, little prouder, stood a litte taller, and oh yeah, those who wanted a job could actually find one.
whosmindingdemint says
đŸ™‚
SomervilleTom says
Yeah, “The Gipper” was doing his thing alright — like selling weapons to the nation at the top of the terrorist list — Iran. There’s a reason it was called the Iran-contra scandal.
Your boy Oliver North was using CIA aircraft to fly dope from Central America to be sold in the Northeast, where the profits were used to buy guns that the same aircraft flew back to Central America. Mr. North was happy to do business with Manuel Noriega, and didn’t mind enriching the infamous Medellin Cartel along the way.
There are a host of very good reasons why the Iran-Contra pardons were so quick and so far-reaching. Somehow I’m not surprised that you so loudly praise a president who was a traitor (surely selling arms to Iran was treasonous) and a criminal ringleader who used government assets to sell illegal drugs to American kids so that he could play soldier. The Medellin Cartel, who Oliver North strengthened and enriched through his dealings with Manuel Noriega, killed more people and destroyed more lives than any imagined “evil” of the Sandinistas.
I’ll happily put Oliver North alongside John Kerry any day of the week.
danfromwaltham says
Tom- we had CIA personnel being tortured by extremest and showing a heart, Reagan wanted them home, back to their families. He also didn’t want the Freedom Fighters in Nicaragua to be wiped out since Congress cut their funding, just as they were on the cusp of victory. Reagan proved freedom would triumph in Central America when he backed up Duarte in El Salvador and defeating the communist guerrillas.
You know what is treasonous Tom? Allowing Americans to be tourchered and not caring/doing anything about it or backing the Freedom Fighters for years, and because Democrats want to embarrass Reagan, cut off their funds and allow them to be killed.
I won’t stoop to your level and call anyone, Dem or Rep traitors. And your drug trafficing story makes a good Hollywood script, talk to those who fund EW’s campaign.
SomervilleTom says
In my book, selling weapons to Iran is treason.
The “freedom fighters” were counter-revolutionaries who were fighting to overthrow a democratically-elected government. They were funded, illegally, by criminals like Oliver North who flaunted the explicit legislation of another democratically-elected government, and then used illegal drug sales conducted with one of the world’s most vicious criminal organizations (the Medellin Cartel) to get the money.
I’m not surprised that you won’t bother to inform yourself about the facts of the drug trafficking involved. This isn’t your first ignorant comment and probably won’t be your last.
methuenprogressive says
No wonder you’re a republican.
danfromwaltham says
Please note, I am a unenrolled voter.
roarkarchitect says
While employment has crashed in manufacturing industries – output has boomed. Technology has made manufacturing much more efficient. Lots of output – many less workers.
NAFTA is great – we stopped shipping to Canada during the great depression and didn’t start shipping until NAFTA – now Canada is a bright spot in an otherwise crappy economy.
The charts are from the federal reserve
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/
danfromwaltham says
We use to run a trade surplus with Mexico, now it’s a deficit. I justified my reluctant vote for Obama because he PROMISED to review the trade deals if elected. I conformed with Barney Frank that the POTUS has not kept his word.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/12/nafta-job-loss-trade-deficit-epi_n_859983.html
danfromwaltham says
I am sure I’m correct for 2004 as well
roarkarchitect says
The bump is the census.
SomervilleTom says
First, why remove local and state employees?
And what is your point anyway?
whosmindingdemint says
Howard Roark rarely has a point.
roarkarchitect says
The chart is very clear – didn’t think it needed a narrative.
Illinois, California and New York have spent themselves into bankruptcy – and been forced to reduce employee count – Obama has somewhat limited control of state employment. I don’ t think it’s correct to credit state and local increase or decrease in employment to Obama.
sabutai says
No state in the US is bankrupt.
Obama has severely limited control of state employment, not “somewhat.” If not, perhaps he would be able to keep more Americans alive through providing Medicare. Unfortunately, the closest thing we have to “Death panels” right now are the Cabinets of Republican governors who have decided that letting their citizens die will help their political careers.
whosmindingdemint says
PoliticUsUSA Writes: “On January 21st, 1981, President Reagan started with 2,875,000 nonmilitary federal employees. By the end of Reagan’s terms the total number of nonmilitary federal employees was 3,113,000. That is an INCREASE of 238,000
On January 20th, 1989, total federal nonmilitary employment was 3,113,000 by the end of his only term, President George H.W. Bush had 3,083,000 federal nonmilitary employees on the books. That is a REDUCTION of 30,000 employees.
President Bill Clinton came into office with 3,083,000 and by the END of his TWO TERMS he reduced the number of Federal employees to 2,703,000. That is a reduction of 380,000 federal employees.
Now finally, President George W. Bush came into office with 2,703,000 nonmilitary employees and by the time his terms were through, the total nonmilitary federal employees on the books were 2,756,000, which is an INCREASE of 53,000 employees.
In fact, Democratic president Bill Clinton reduced the size of the federal government employee size to PRE- REAGAN levels.
The Reagan conservatives, in fact the entire GOP TODAY are trying to frame President Obama as a big government liberal but again, the numbers don’t lie.
By the end of 2010, the United States STILL has less employees on the books than we did back in 1980 even though the population has grown from 226,545,805 to approximately 330,000,000 in 2010.”
By the way, I see nothing to brag about here, other than exposing the GOP as “big guv’mnt” spenders – what a shock.
roarkarchitect says
Yes Reagan was a big spender and the best economic growth I can remember in the past 30 years was under President Clinton with a Republican Congress and a reduced federal workforce.
In the past 30 years technology has replaced employees – except recently it seems in the federal workforce.
whosmindingdemint says
with economic growth, the chart in the post would seem to indicate that we are experiencing and economic boom.
What happened?
danfromwaltham says
That would explain the nose-dive in the 90’s.
roarkarchitect says
Can’t find any data on the breakout. It would make sense.
Christopher says
…if it showed similar lines for the other recent Presidents. If we had had more stimulus sent to the states and more hiring at the federal level, experience shows we could have weathered this better. Many states, unfortunately do have balanced budget requirements which the federal government can and should compensate for. Of course if states had prioritized hiring more public employees over their own versions of slashing taxes on the wealthy that would have helped too. Not only would hiring more people help the job count, but those who are hired have money to spend to stimulate the economy. Why is it that only private job creation is considered good?
danfromwaltham says
not by relying on federal funds borrowed from China, but taking the steps like Governor Walker and Gov. Christie and reformed the obscene benefits for public employees.
Just as Michigan does, state employees should be on 401-K plans and social security. Heck, even federal employees hired since 1986 are on 401-K.
SomervilleTom says
You seem to be saying that you think the staggering federal deficit created by George W. Bush can be solved by betraying public employees. It doesn’t sound like you’ve done the math. The US squandered more than a trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while George W. Bush simultaneously slashed taxes.
Now you suggest that public employees should be stripped of their pensions to pay for this fantastical GOP nonsense?
I’m not surprised that you trumpet the “virtues” of Oliver North — you seem to share his misplaced notions of morality, ethics, and fiscal responsibility. Not to mention his contempt for working people.
danfromwaltham says
What I am saying is the states can’t be relying on the federal government to fund their excessive public union benefits, that are devastating state and municipal budgets.
SomervilleTom says
A key difference between this Great Recession and other less drastic recessions before it is that state and local hiring has plummeted.
The states are not “relying on the federal government to fund their excessive public union benefits”, and public employee benefits are not the reason America is borrowing from China.
oceandreams says
… from a blog post at none other than the American Enterprise Institute, which notes that private sector GDP has seen 12 consecutive quarters of growth averaging 3.07% per quarter, “slightly higher than the 2.8% average growth rate in private real GDP over the last 25 years.” However, public sector GDP has seen 8 straight quarters of decline, averaging -2.88% per quarter over the last two years.
Concludes U. of Michigan economics professor Mark Perry:
“So maybe it’s true that the ‘private sector is doing fine’ and most of the sub-par economic growth measured by real GDP is simply reflecting the decreases in government spending, and not weakness in the private sector?”
Gee, who would have imagined that pulling massive amounts of public spending out of the economy might actually affect, oh, the economy….