Tell me something I don’t know. I’m dividing my attention between impeachment and Governor Baker’s State of the Commonwealth, which generated more questions than answers in my mind …
There is one conclusion that is a certainty: The Republican Party, in the House and Senate, has wrapped its arms around Trump’s betrayal of country; and his corruption; and his endless lies; and his vindictiveness. They will forever be associated; and if we survive long enough to still have history, it will remember them as shamed and guilty.
And so I find myself, in the moment, agreeing with jconway that we have under-valued harm reduction. I certainly don’t like Biden’s history of centrist straddling on Social Security, or crime; or his long work as a bagman for the credit card industry. I don’t trust Buttigieg’s McKinsey-opportunist mentality. But these are ordinary, ambitious people. They’re not special, or especially wicked; they’re simply the kind of people who run for president. We will at least survive them, and maybe even do better, with the due application of public pressure.
PBS’s “American Experience” recently had a terrific documentary on Joe McCarthy. McCarthy had cowed the entire political establishment into a defensive submission — including a war hero President. And yet, by June of 1954, when Joseph Welch asked him, “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?” McCarthy had already been hitting the bottle pretty hard. Less than three years later, McCarthy, a newlywed and father to a young child, was dead from alcoholism. I think that in his heart of hearts, Joe McCarthy did have a shred of decency. There was a dissonance, and the dissonance killed him. It’s a Greek tragedy, really.
The lesson for the GOP — from McCarthy, even more from Nixon, and then Iran Contra — has been to try to jettison the shame. It wasn’t doing them any good, after all. Trump, as we can observe, has absolutely no sense of decency, no shame. He’s pure in that way; it’s his superpower. He famously doesn’t drink; he doesn’t need to. But I really wonder how much dissonance the rest of the GOP can stand. How many of those folks are hitting the bottle, because they know that what they’re doing is vile, and unpatriotic, and corrupt?
It’s the job of patriotic Americans to heighten that sense of dissonance, to make it ring in the ears and burn with shame. Again, we act like the Republicans are scorpions, that they can’t help it, it’s in their nature. What if they do know better, but just can’t admit it now — in for a dime, in for a dollar? What if we don’t take their arguments and protestations and antics at face value? What if we call out the fear that they feel? How do we stage an intervention?
They do know better. They just won’t do better. The intervention is in November.
SomervilleTom says
@ The intervention is in November:
The Senate is on-track to defeat the articles of impeachment soon, perhaps even by the SOTU address.
When Donald Trump, his administration, and his GOP Collaborators have been impeached and acquitted, there are no longer ANY constraints on their behavior whatsoever. Suppose Mr. Trump declared a state of emergency and “postponed” the 2020 election. What would happen next? Would he be impeached again?
Do you really think they’ll allow an election in 2020 that might end their reign? Or if they allow that election and lose, do you really think they’ll peacefully relinquish power?
I don’t. I fear that historians will describe 2016 as the last general election conducted in the United States of America, and will note that the outcome of that was very likely determined by the active intervention of a hostile foreign power.
Christopher says
I really wish you would knock it off with the conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. In our system the President has no power to call them off. The states run the elections and if Trump loses he will have to leave, notwithstanding any whining and footstomping about them being illegitimate. We maintained our regularly scheduled elections through the Civil War, both world wars, and the Great Depression and we surely will now.
SomervilleTom says
What will the states do in order to force elections to happen if the President and Senate — perhaps supported by a majority of the Supreme Court — says they may be postponed? For that matter, what will the states do if the President and Senate — AFTER Mr. Trump has been impeached and acquitted — choose to postpone elections in spite of a Supreme Court ruling to the contrary?:
Once impeachment has been tried and shown to fail, what remedy do you suggest is available to the states? What agents of what state agency will physically remove Mr. Trump and his family from the White House?
I hate to break it to you, but we are already living what you would surely have called a “conspiracy theory” five short years ago. We have direct evidence of Russia interfering in elections, flooding the GOP with illegal campaign contributions from a criminal cabal organized by a Ukrainian organized crime figure put in place by Vladimir Putin, and a President and cabinet doing the will of the Russian government at every turn. Each effort of responsible Americans and officials is already being ignored. Not just ignored, but rebuffed with scorn, contempt, and harassment. A President who has surrounded himself with convicted felons and unindicted co-conspirators. A President whose utterly unqualified family members play major roles in domestic foreign policy — family members who were not even able to obtain the security clearances needed for the roles they have been awarded.
In a working system, this behavior would have been stopped years ago. In a working system, the perpetrators of the foreign intervention in our elections would have been exposed, prosecuted, and punished. In a working system, the changes needed to prevent a recurrence would have been top priority from the moment the intervention was revealed. In a working system, the devastating report of Mr. Mueller would have been even stronger after being buttressed by the full force and power of the Department of Justice.
If you watched last night’s GOP circus, then you would not be talking about “the system” protecting us from anything. What I saw last night was absolute tyranny on full display.
I will happily confess to being wrong if the 2020 elections happen and the current criminal conspiracy is actually removed from power. If that does not happen (and if sites like this are still allowed to operate), then I will expect a heartfelt apology.
jconway says
True but verify is how I square that circle. Trust the voters and the process should work, but verify that it actually was. This is why the work Stacey Abrams is doing is so important-it would be nice if Steyer and Bloomberg could fund that instead of their vanity campaigns.
Christopher says
Again, our states don’t force elections, they just hold them. Bill Galvin, for example, does not work for Donald Trump. Didn’t you think we would not have 2018 elections too, or if we did that somehow Trump would never allow (as if that were his call) an opposition House to be seated? The federal government is constituted by the states and our system was deliberately designed such that the feds actually have very little say aside from the authority to require they be on a uniform date.
SomervilleTom says
@ States don’t force elections…:
Suppose the federal government refuses to accept the outcome of the various elections? We have an administration and party that flatly refuses to even pretend to respect the Constitution or the laws. I’ll ask again: What happens when the President, the DoJ, and at least the Senate respond to the elections the same way they responded to valid subpoenas from the House?
@Didn’t you think we would not have 2018 elections too …:
What Mr. Trump and GOP did instead was to flatly IGNORE the new Congress.
What had not happened in 2018 was an impeachment followed by an acquittal.
What does Bill Galvin do after Donald Trump gives the Commonwealth of MA a raised middle finger in response to our 2020 election results?
Christopher says
Bill Galvin certifies the results, which will almost certainly be that the Democratic slate of electors gets to meet in the State House in December and casts their ballots for the Dem ticket. Those results along with those of the other states gets transmitted to Congress which opens the ballots. It will be the new Congress, which is looking more possible every day to be Dem on both sides, which will declare the winner. Each house also gets to decide the outcomes of disputed elections, but there has to be a legitimate dispute. There are just so many people who would have to be in on the conspiracy for your fears to come to pass, but that does not include the WH and DOJ which have absolutely nothing to do with the election process.
SomervilleTom says
I get all that. I’m not sure I’m being clear about what I’m asking or perhaps predicting.
After all those things you talk about have happened, what is the scenario when the administration and its defenders in the Senate and House literally ignore all that you’ve described, just as they’ve ignored ALL the subpoenas and so on so far?
Whatever “conspiracy” that takes has already been in place and operating for at least three years, since 2016. I expect the same players to continue to behave the same way. I’m asking you what’s going to make them change that behavior.
About half of the voters of this nation believe that the Democrats are a lying pack of thieves who don’t deserve to exist, never mind govern. Many of those voters believe that Donald Trump has been raised up by God Himself to “save” all of us.
What happens when Mr. Trump, his administration, and his Senate defenders say to their base and to the rest of us that the election was invalid (they’ll make up some excuse) and simply refuse to give up power?
Who forces the issue? The military, with Mike Espy as Secretary of Defense? The DoJ, under William Barr? The last time I checked, neither the Senate nor the House has any resources to enforce whatever they do.
The Democrats have already presented a compelling case for removal, well documented and well presented. That case will be ignored and Donald Trump acquitted, whether or not witnesses appear. The GOP Senate will simply ignore all that and vote to acquit.
What happens when they, Mr. Trump, and his administration treat the election results with the same contempt?
Christopher says
I suppose if it comes to that people can be arrested for not leaving government property, but I have zero expectation it will get that far. Congressional sergeants-at-arms do have that authority. I’m not saying some defenders won’t kick and scream, but it will ultimately be no more than a show. I still think the much more likely scenario is that Trump pulls a John Adams and skips town rather than hang around for the inauguration of his successor.
SomervilleTom says
I want to continue an exchange between Christopher and me that’s become buried in the comment nesting.
The reason I resist the characterization of my concerns as a “conspiracy theory” is that there is an aspect of this fundamental conflict that I don’t see us admitting to ourselves. Christopher’s reaction is a perfectly reasonable one in the absence of understanding this aspect.
I think many of us, especially those of us who see ourselves as “moderates”, fail to recognize both the depth of commitment and the passion of those on the other side who continue to support and defend Mr. Trump and his behavior.
What some might call a “conspiracy” is, I think, better characterized as behavior of those share common core beliefs and passions. When birds flock together, they are not participating in a conspiracy. The flock is instead an epiphenomenon that emerges from the instinctive behavior of each bird. The flock is still very real.
The members of today’s GOP truly BELIEVE that “Liberals” and, by extension, “Democrats” are evil. They actually DO. The GOP has been purging more moderate members from itself for decades now. The GOP “base” that we see today values their worldview above all else.
I fear that because most of us do not share these extreme perspectives towards the universe, we find it difficult or impossible to believe that the other side really DOES hate us. They really DO believe we are evil.
They WILL crush us, without hesitation, if we allow them. The other side truly DOES BELIEVE that GOP autocracy is better for America than the “liberal” view of all the Democratic candidates. Their values and priorities are more important to them than truth, fact, the rule of law, or any other “niceties” that are so important to us.
These people DO drive their cars into crowds in order kill us.
We ignore these priorities at our peril. Today’s GOP base believes that they are right and everyone else is wrong. They believe that anything that challenges that view — specifically including facts, evidence, and rational argument — is evil and should be dismissed as such.
We see this belief system at work in those who assert the “Young Earth” ideology. They believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, and intentionally created by their conception of “God”. They believe that their God planted spurious artifacts around us to “tempt” us into “doubting” the “truth” of “God’s holy word”. Each scientific discovery is therefore a “test of faith”. Presenting factual evidence to a person who holds this worldview INCREASES, rather than erodes, their embrace of these fallacies.
The GOP has courted this demographic for generations. We should not be surprised that the same people who are so passionate about their existential view of the universe bring the same values and priorities to government and politics — with similar results.
Issuing a subpoena to someone holding this worldview is like asking them “how old is the Earth” on a science test. They’re going to say “6,000 years” — they’re going to ignore the subpoena. If they’re a voter, they’ll demand that their elected official ignores the subpoena. The subpoena is, after all, nothing more than an additional ploy by evil actors to subvert the True America.
An extremist who actually BELIEVES that abortion is murder will kill an abortion provider “in order to prevent more murders”. Telling that extremist that the act is illegal will result in the extremist saying “I’m willing to sacrifice myself for God. The law is immoral, abortion is murder, the abortion provider must be killed to protect the innocent unborn children.”
Similarly, an extremist who actually believes that Liberals and Democrats are evil will not hesitate to do whatever is necessary to keep Liberals and Democrats from gaining power. Arguments about the rule of law, the sanctity of elections, all of that, are useless.
It does not take a massive “conspiracy” to forcibly keep the current GOP in power. It instead takes enough GOP extremists acting on their values and priorities to stop the functioning of our fragile system of checks, balances, and behaviors.
We are not witnessing a conspiracy. We are watching a collection of vultures flock together.
Christopher says
I’m not aware of anyone actually in government who would mow down a counterprotester, murder an abortion provider, or condone those actions on the part of others. I don’t doubt extremist passion; I very much doubt it having any impact on a 230-year tradition of peaceful transfers of power.
SomervilleTom says
@ I’m not aware of anyone actually in government who would …:
Were you not paying attention to Mr. Trump’s famous comments about “good people on both sides”?
Today’s GOP officials are elected by voters who very much embrace the extremism I’m citing — and they know it.
Can you say more about why you believe that a 230 year tradition of peaceful transfers of power is any different from similarly venerable traditions of:
– Hearing evidence before deciding guilt or innocence
– Cooperating with lawfully-issued subpoenas
– Scrupulous care to avoid politicizing ongoing investigations
– Scrupulous care to avoid politicizing the DoJ and Attorney General
– Senate duty to hear and vote on nominations to the Supreme Court
and so on.
The list of shattered and broken traditions and precedents is long and growing by the hour.
Christopher says
But all those things you list are child’s play compared to actually refusing to relinquish power. I not only heard the both sides comment, it provoked a reaction in me more extreme than I have ever produced. We are a much stronger country then that and if we weren’t that would have already been much more obvious.
SomervilleTom says
I’m glad that you’re more optimistic than me.
I accept your criticism that I’m pessimistic. I’m only trying to clarify why I think your use of “conspiracy” is inappropriate.
There is no conspiracy of people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old, that evolution is a dangerous heresy that has no basis in fact, or — for that matter — that a historical figure was born without the cooperation of a human male, was resurrected after being dead for three days, and was bodily lifted into heaven after that.
Millions of people have acted on these beliefs for thousands of years and drastically shaped human history. None of them was a “conspiracy”.
In a similar vein, I argue that today’s Trumpists believe that their way is the only way and believe that they must impose their beliefs about Donald Trump, his administration, and the GOP on everybody else. Those Trumpists are not hesitant to impose the rest of their beliefs on those around them and I suggest they will similarly not hesitate to impose these.
I’m talking about a passionately held belief system, not a “conspiracy”.
Christopher says
But it would take a conspiracy on a massive scale for what you fear to come to pass. It would require the complicity of (in no particular order) the President, the Cabinet, the Civil Service, both chambers of Congress, state election officers, presidential electors, the military, the courts, the institutional parties, the media, and last but not least the American people. Since you touch on Christian mythology I will point out that there have been Christian Dominionists among us for decades. They certainly WANT to impose their worldview on the rest of us, but that doesn’t mean they will succeed.
SomervilleTom says
We already have compelling the evidence that the following participated in the Ukraine/Russia scandal (in no particular order):
Rick Perry
Mike Pompeo
William Barr
Mike Pence
Mick Mulvaney
Mark Esper
Sean Hannity
Devin Nunes
Pete Sessions
No Senators (yet), but five cabinet members, one White House Chief of staff and director of the OMB, one news anchor, and two members of the House. This certainly WAS a criminal conspiracy.
I’m just saying that enormous numbers of Americans enthusiastically support this authoritarian regime, and do so with religious passion rather than simple ideological enthusiasm.
I hope you’re right. I fear you’re not.
Christopher says
I agree that THAT conspiracy has already been made manifest, but the election has not taken place yet so I’m not ready to say it won’t happen or take effect.
gmoke says
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.
Karl Marx
And the third time it becomes completely absurd or surreal.