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Thoughts on Palin

September 4, 2008 By Charley on the MTA

First of all, I think a recognition is due to our right-wing friends that indeed she is a considerable political talent. She delivered her speech with confidence and poise, and stepped into the VP candidate's attack-dog role with zest. It's on, she seemed to say. And the ecstatic GOP response was a combination of ideological kinsmanship and brow-mopping relief.

I think that vetting issues aside (not for long!), one sees what McCain saw in her, and why he thought she'd be a formidable VP candidate. For now, the Eagleton comparisons would seem to be non-operative.

That being said, with her own slashing style, she opens herself up for more scrutiny from the press, and attacks from the other side.

She again flat-out lied about the Bridge to Nowhere. “Thanks but no thanks”? More like “Thanks in advance” when she was running for Gov. in '06. This is in the context of a broader self-created narrative that she's outside and against the political establishment of AK, when in fact, her record on that is spotty indeed. (So how great is Rep. Don Young, Governor?)

Her dismissal of Obama's community organizing experience shows ignorant snobbery. I suppose that helping poor urban people advocate for their own interests has never been high on the GOP list of priorities.

“Obama's task was to help far South Side residents press for improvements ranging from pothole repair to job training. Working out of a two-room office of a Roman Catholic church in the Roseland neighborhood, the neophyte went door-to-door, seeking to make 25 new contacts a week as he heard community concerns.

“Ninety percent of the people in the U.S. would be terrified to walk the streets that Barack Obama walked,” said Greg Galluzzo, whose Gamaliel Foundation served as a Chicago umbrella organization for groups including DCP.”

Including, I suspect, one pitbull-with-lipstick. How is this reference not the same kind of contemptuous elitism the GOP purports to object to so strenuously — just against urban people of color?

While the speech was good, it still had the feel of a regional newcomer warming up the crowd — or even at times, a student council president's speech. (No, these impressions are not unique to me.) She will still have trouble with the gravitas issue, since she didn't and doesn't display any particular expertise in the pressing issues of the day. When she starts to take questions from the press, we'll see how slick she really is.

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Filed Under: User Tagged With: 2008, gop, palin, rncc

Comments

  1. farnkoff says

    September 4, 2008 at 11:44 am

    could imagine that the GOP has anything at all to offer them, or to offer the country in general, is beyond me. The very rich, war profiteers, some insurance company executives, and a variety of other “very special interests” are undoubtedly excited that Palin has breathed some life into McCain’s campaign- but my goodness, the middle class can’t possibly be falling for this, can they? What madness.

    • laurel says

      September 4, 2008 at 11:56 am

      if you think you’ll never get economic control of your own life, you turn to the church and try to take control of something.  other people are a good start.  the gop offers poor folk the opportunity to lord it over someone even less powerful than they are (female wage earners, women of reproductive years, gays, non-christians or the wrong sort of christians, people who read in libraries, etc.  it’s  power trip for the powerless.  same reason people go to megachurches.  imagine how powerful the peon feels among 10,000 other peons, all being made to feel special by the rich guy at the alter.

      • cannoneo says

        September 4, 2008 at 12:02 pm

        worship those above you, crap on those below

      • fairdeal says

        September 4, 2008 at 2:21 pm

        1. they see themselves not making as much money as the other guy.
        2. their revenge is to join a church.
        3. upon joining said church, they begin a campaign to take control of ‘something’.
        4. naturally, these economically depressed crusaders target the weakest and most well-read among us in their quest for control.
        5. these people then drive to upper middle-class suburban megachurches along with 10,000 others to submit to, and then be flattered by, their wealthy leader.
        6. the takeover of america begins.

        <

        p>okay, got it now.

        • laurel says

          September 4, 2008 at 2:25 pm

          except i’m really talking about people supporting the gop.  it is a church-like* experience for them, and allows them to feel a glimmer of power.  why else care who i marry or who you fornicate with and whether you wear a rubber?  power.  

          <

          p>*not all churches are as i describe, and not everyone goes to church for these reasons, of course.

          • fairdeal says

            September 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm

            are seeking not power, but some level of empathy.

            • laurel says

              September 4, 2008 at 3:16 pm

              at least not the people i’m talking about.  they’re looking for something like the flip side of empathy.

              • fairdeal says

                September 4, 2008 at 3:18 pm

                that a ‘hockey mom’ can deliver?

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 3:29 pm

                  her followers will finally get to control your reproductive freedom, make their religion quasi-official, prevent queers from fully realizing their citizenship and living openly and honestly, keeping women fiscally handicapped, etc.  is it really that difficult to see?

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 3:44 pm

                  because as a liberal democrat in massachusetts with bunches of family and friends in my rural red state who regularly vote republican, i have never ever heard anyone speak in the terms you are describing.

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 3:48 pm

                  or even be completely aware of the underlying emotional motivations?

                  <

                  p>but if my theory doesn’t fit your family & friends, tell us why you think they support the gop.  i’m sure there’s more than one reason – one explanation never fits all.  why are your friends & family voting against their own best interests and the best interest of the country?

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 4:28 pm

                  bypassing your characterization of inarticulate zombies, i would toss out one random thing;

                  <

                  p>the democratic party might do well to clearly and fairly try to understand why large groups of americans who overwhemingly voted for, and supported the vision of,  john f. kennedy now don’t feel at home in his party.

                  <

                  p>and i would submit that writing people off as morons and suckers and haters is not the best way to do that.

                  <

                  p>

                • bob-neer says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:30 pm

                  I’m not convinced there are very many of them. After all, JFK barely won his election against Nixon — and, indeed, some suggest may not have won it at all in Illinois and West Virginia, absent some extra-electoral help. Thus, my question: who exactly are the “americans who overwhemingly voted for, and supported the vision of,  john f. kennedy now don’t feel at home in his party.”

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm

                  throwing a bone to my mass. homies.

                  <

                  p>okay, kennedy’s win probably could not be characterized as ‘overwhelming’.
                  so instead, can i replace that with examples both before and after?

                  <

                  p>franklin roosevelt and lyndon johnson, arguably the two most liberal (by modern day definitions) presidents in american history, won overwhelming majorities among people who today do not feel at home in the democratic party.

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 6:58 pm

                  parties never (should?) change.  are you saying that the democratic and republican parties of today should be the same as they were in 1933 and 1962?  i’m not sure that’s possible.  the world changes, and parties with it.  let’s talk about all the multitudes of republicans who are decidedly not comfortable in the party of ford.

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:28 pm

                  let’s offer them a place in the democratic party that they can feel energized about. so that we can stop losing elections by a thread that we oughta we winning by 7-9 points.

                  <

                  p>

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:36 pm

                  honestly, you’re being so vague, i’m wondering if you’re just poking bruises for fun.  

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 8:07 pm

                  i’m assuming you meant moderate repubs that aren’t very comfortable riding with the god-guns-gays demagogues.

                • geo999 says

                  September 5, 2008 at 9:11 am

                  So secret that its members aren’t even aware of it.

                  <

                  p>They just follow the super secret dog whistle prompts, and respond mindlessly to super secret code words that none of them know because then it wouldn’t be super secret anymore.

                • rioblaise says

                  September 4, 2008 at 3:53 pm

                  I don’t like the term “reproductive freedom”. Sounds like China and the one child policy and makes it seem like pro-lifers want to take away your freedom of having children.  What they want to take away is your freedom of aborting a fetus.  “Reproductive freedom” is one of those fuzzy words that sound good like “compassionate conservatism”.  What it really is they want to take away is “freedom of aborting reproduction”. Doesn’t sound as warm and fuzzy but has more truth to it.  

                  <

                  p>IMHO, Roe v. Wade has a zero chance of being overturned anyways. Republicans take pro-life stances to round up feverish support of a large voting population.

                  <

                  p>I also disagree that Republicans are trying to control and keep women fiscally handicapped.  I understand what happens to women living in poverty have a much less of a chance to ever climb out of poverty if they become pregnant as teenagers but in my opinion not having the choice of abortion would not be the only reason but one of a myriad of reasons.

                  <

                  p>Its like when Republicans use Democrats ideas of affirmative action as a scare tactic saying unqualified minorities are going to take all the jobs and spots in top schools.

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:02 pm

                  … all they need to do is find that it was wrongly decided.  They don’t even have to disagree with the outcome.

                • they says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:25 pm

                  RvW, if I am remembering right, only said that first trimester abortions (when a pregnancy is still private) cannot be prohibited.  It allowed states to regulate and prohibit second and third trimester abortions.

                • rioblaise says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:29 pm

                  Bush would of done it. He had a republican congress, conservative justices, and it was never even attempted.

                  <

                  p>Nevah gonna happen!!

                • they says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:23 pm

                  But they really do want “reproductive freedom”, not merely the right (of women) to end pregnancies but also the right to get pregnant any way they want to, and even create embryos and design the genome of embryos any way they want to.  Abortion rights (for women) is only one aspect.

                  <

                  p>Causes in Common lays out the four main aspects of “reproductive freedom”:

                  <

                  p>

                  #1 The right to individual autonomy in all matters related to adult consensual sexuality, gender expression and reproduction.
                  #2 The right of individuals to have control over their own bodies and the right to engage in intimate behavior with members of one’s own sex are fundamental to the liberation of LGBT people.
                  #3 The right of all women to safe and affordable abortions and the right of all people to access safe and affordable reproductive technologies and assistance.
                  #4 Social change for the purpose of eradicating all forms of homophobia and transphobia, and for the full attainment of the right to choose to reproduce.

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:33 pm

                  what you really mean is that you, they, want others to believe that that is what all we LGBTs want.  stop putting words into peoples mouths.  in other words, fuck off already and stop misrepresenting a whole class of people and twisting legal and human rights realities, you sick, twisted, homophobic fuck.

                • they says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:54 pm

                  Association of Reproductive Health Professionals
                     The Association of Reproductive Health Professionals (ARHP) is a multidisciplinary association of professionals who provide reproductive health services or education, conduct reproductive health research, or influence reproductive health policy.
                  Barnard/Columbia Students for Choice
                     Barnard/Columbia Students for Choice is a campus organization that focuses on building a community of Pro-Choice students through educational events and opportunities for activism.
                  Basic Rights Oregon
                     Ending discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in Oregon
                  Bay Area Coalition on Reproductive Rights
                     A multi -issue coalition made up of everyone who wants to finish the work started by women and men who fought to rescue our reproductive abilities from the hands of those least equipped to deal with them.
                  Buddhist Psychotherapy Collective
                     Turing challenges and difficulties into opportunities for growth and transformation
                  COLAGE (Children of Lesbians & Gays Everywhere)
                     Equality & justice for people with lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender parents & our families
                  California Coalition for Reproductive Freedom
                     Advocating for policies to meet women’s unique needs
                  Catholics for Choice
                     CFFC shapes and advances sexual and reproductive ethics that are based on justice, reflect a commitment to women’s well being and respect and affirm the moral capacity of women and men to make sound decisions about their lives. Through discourse, education and advocacy, CFFC works in the US and internationally to infuse these values into public policy, community life and Catholic social thinking and teaching.
                  Center Advocates
                     The Milwaukee LGBT Community Center is a community-based organization represented by more than 150 volunteers and over 300 members. It’s mission is to improve the quality of life for LGBT people in the Metro Milwaukee area.
                  Center for Genetics and Society
                     The Center for Genetics and Society is a nonprofit information and public affairs organization working to encourage responsible uses and effective societal governance of the new human genetic and reproductive technologies. We work with a growing network of scientists, health professionals, civil society leaders, and others.
                  Center for Reproductive Rights

                  <

                  p>Choice USA
                     Leadership for a pro-choice future
                  Civil Liberties & Public Policy Program
                     A reproductive rights organization that trains, educates, and inspires
                  Colorado Organization for Latina Opportunity and Reproductive Rights (COLOR)

                  <

                  p>Columbia Queer Alliance
                     CQA is the primary social, political, and educational organization for lesbian, bisexual, gay, transgendered and questioning students at Columbia College, the School of Engineering, and Barnard College. Although we are officially an undergraduate group, we believe it is important to work closely with the LGBT groups from Columbia’s graduate schools and to reach out to other campus organizations in the NYC area. Although we have our own programming, we also act as a resource and umbrella group for many of the smaller queer campus organizations. Membership is open to all.
                  Committee on Women, Population, and the Environment (CWPE)
                     Bringing feminist activism and analysis closer together at all levels
                  Community Alliance and Action Network
                     Our Mission is to build community and personal alliances to alleviate the effects of discrimination due to sexual orientation and/or gender identification.
                  Community HIV/AIDS Mobilization Project (CHAMP)
                     The Community HIV/AIDS Mobilization Project (CHAMP) is a national initiative building a powerful community-based movement bridging HIV/AIDS, human rights, and struggles for social and economic justice. In an era in which HIV rates are rising and prevention efforts are under concerted attack, CHAMP mobilizes people living with HIV, community activists, researchers, academics and policy advocates in our country, and links them with allies around the world.
                  Compass (LGBT Center of Palm Beach County)
                     Guiding the LGBT community of Palm Beach County
                  Diversity Center (San Antonio)
                     San Antonio & South Texas’ GLBTQI community center
                  Empire State Pride Agenda
                     Winning equality and justice for lesbian, gay, bisexual & transgender New Yorkers and our families
                  Equal Rights Washington
                     Fighting for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender equality.
                  Equality Florida
                     Equality Florida is a statewide education and advocacy organization dedicated to eliminating discrimination based on sexual orientation, race, gender and class.
                  Equality New Mexico
                     To increase visibility & impact
                  Equality Texas
                     Equality Texas is a statewide political advocacy organization working to advance the cause of equality for all Texans.
                  Family Pride Coalition
                     Equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender parents and their families
                  Freedom to Marry
                     The gay and non-gay partnership working to win marriage equality nationwide
                  Gay & Lesbian Community Center of South Florida
                     To provide a safe and nurturing environment for individuals and groups
                  Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund
                     BREAK through
                  Gay Men of African Descent
                     Embracing diversity. Building community.
                  Gender Education and Advocacy
                     Compassionate support and passionate advocacy on behalf of transsexual and transgendered persons
                  Georgians for Choice
                     The statewide coalition for women’s freedom
                  Ipas
                     Protecting women’s health, advancing women’s reproductive rights.
                  Kansas City Anti-Violence Project
                     To end all types of violence in the lives of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people
                  Kansas Unity & Pride Alliance
                     Serving the Kansas LGBT community
                  L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center
                     Complete equality and empowerment
                  Lambda Legal
                     Committed to achieving full recognition of the civil rights of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgender people and those with HIV/AIDS
                  Law Students for Reproductive Justice
                     Defending Reproductive Rights
                  Lesbian/Gay Community Center of Greater Cleveland
                     Leading change. Leading the charge. For 30 years.
                  Long Island Gay and Lesbian Youth
                     Dedicated to Serving the Needs of the Long Island GLBT Community
                  Lyon-Martin Women’s Health Services
                     We don’t just treat women. We treat women with respect.
                  Massachusetts Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus
                     MGLPC is the most experienced and respected lobbying operation on Beacon Hill working for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equal rights.
                  Medical Students for Choice
                     Creating tomorrow’s abortion providers and pro-choice physicians.
                  NARAL Pro-Choice New York
                     Protecting freedom of choice
                  NARAL Pro-Choice Texas
                     NARAL Pro-Choice Texas is the political arm of the pro-choice movement in Texas.
                  National AIDS Education & Services for Minorities
                     We love you, love yourself, BE SAFE…
                  National Advocates for Pregnant Women

                  <

                  p>National Center for Lesbian Rights
                     Rights and safety for lesbians and their families
                  National Center for Transgender Equality
                     Dedicated to advancing the equality of transgender people through advocacy,
                  collaboration and empowerment
                  National Gay & Lesbian Task Force
                     Building LGBT political power from the ground up
                  National Latina Institute for Reproductive Health
                     Connecting Latinas, improving health
                  National Youth Advocacy Coalition
                     Improving the lives of LGBTQ youth through advocacy, education, and information
                  New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project
                     Celebrating 25 years of service to New York’s lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual & HIV-affected communities
                  Our Family Coalition

                  <

                  p>PROMO
                     For the personal rights of Missourians
                  Pacific Pride Foundation
                     Proudly serving Santa Barbara County for over 30 years
                  Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health
                     The voice of pro-choice physicians
                  Pikes Peak Gay & Lesbian Community Center
                     To empower lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people to achieve civil and social equality.
                  Planned Parenthood Federation of America
                     Culturally competent, high quality, affordable health care to millions of diverse women, men, and teens
                  Planned Parenthood Mar Monte
                     This largest Planned Parenthood affiliate in the US helps ensure every family is a healthy family.
                  Planned Parenthood Pennsylvania Advocates
                     Planned Parenthood’s Pennsylvania state public affairs office.
                  Planned Parenthood Southeastern Pennsylvania
                     “. . . the first right of a child [is] to be wanted, to be desired, to be planned for with an intensity of love.” – Margaret Sanger
                  Planned Parenthood of Connecticut
                     Always confidential, always affordable, always right here to give you the information & services you need!
                  Planned Parenthood of Greater Cleveland
                     Planned Parenthood of Greater Cleveland (PPGC) is an affiliate of the most trusted reproductive health care organization in the world.
                  Planned Parenthood of Greater Iowa

                  <

                  p>Planned Parenthood of Greater Iowa

                  <

                  p>Planned Parenthood of Louisville
                     Helping women, men and teens make responsible choices for over 70 years
                  Planned Parenthood of Montana
                     To ensure the freedom of all people to manage their own sexual and reproductive health by providing the highest quality health care services, education and advocacy.
                  Planned Parenthood of New York City
                     A tradition of choice built on responsibility, respect and leadership
                  Planned Parenthood of Northern New England (PPNNE)
                     Provider of personal care and personal choices for more than 40 years!
                  Planned Parenthood of Southeast Iowa
                     PPSI is the Planned Parenthood affiliate for Southeast Iowa including Burlington and Keokuk.
                  Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania
                     Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania believes in the natural right of each individual to manage his or her fertility regardless of the individual’s income, marital status, age, national origin or residence.
                  Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin
                     The mission of Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin, Inc. is to empower all individuals to manage their sexual and reproductive health through patient services, education and advocacy.
                  Planned Parenthood of the Mid-Hudson Valley
                     Equal access to quality reproductive services
                  Planned Parenthood of the Palm Beach & Treasure Coast Area
                     34 years of serving the women, men and teens of our local community
                  Planned Parenthood of the Texas Capital Region
                     Planned Parenthood of the Texas Capital Region, Inc., is dedicated to helping people make informed, private decisions in matters of sexuality, reproduction, and parenthood.
                  Planned Parenthood: Shasta-Diablo

                  <

                  p>Pleasure Education Resource for Vegas Valley
                     PERVV provides quality non-judgmental information about sex and pleasure, sexual health, sexuality, sexual orientation, and related topics to the Vegas Valley community.
                  Pro-Choice Public Education Project
                     Be real and make your own choices. Demand your right to a healthy life.
                  Queers for Economic Justice
                     Promoting economic justice in a context of sexual and gender liberation
                  R.U.1.2.? Queer Community Center
                     Vermont’s Queer Community Center
                  Reproductive Choice Association
                     CHOICE its about time
                  Resource Center of Dallas
                     The Center is people.
                  Seacoast Outright
                     Working to ensure equal opportunity for all youth, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.
                  Sexuality Information & Education Council of the United States
                     Creating a world that ensures social justice and sexual rights
                  SisterSong
                     Doing Collectively What We Cannot Do Individually
                  Tapestry Health
                     Dedicated to providing high-quality, affordable, confidential health services and advocacy to those in Western Massachusetts.
                  The Center Hawaii
                     Serving the LGBTIQ Communities Since 1973
                  The Center Orange County
                     The voice of Orange County’s LGBT community
                  The Center for Genetics and Society
                     The Center for Genetics and Society is a nonprofit information and public affairs organization working to encourage responsible uses and effective societal governance of the new human genetic and reproductive technologies.
                  The Center for HIV Law & Policy
                     The national legal resource and strategy center for HIV advocates
                  The DC Center
                     Home for GLBT in metro DC
                  The Gay Youth Corner
                     The definitive gay youth website
                  The Kentucky Fairness Alliance
                     Building a fair Kentucky from the ground up
                  The Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Community Center (New York)
                     It’s your center
                  The Mautner Project for Lesbian Health
                     Improving the health of lesbians and their families
                  The Missouri Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
                     The Missouri Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice brings the moral power of religious communities to ensure reproductive choice through education and advocacy.
                  The National Association of LGBT Community Centers
                     Creating a society of diversity, dignity, and justice
                  The Woodhull Freedom Foundation
                     Sexuality as a positive personal, social and moral value
                  Third Wave Foundation
                     Working for young women, transgender youth and allies.
                  Triangle Foundation (Michigan)
                     Michigan’s leading organization serving the gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and allied communities
                  Wingspan (Arizona)
                     Southern Arizona’s lesbian, gay bisexual and transgender community center
                  Youth TIES–Youth Trans & Intersex Education Services
                     Youth-led trans, gender-variant, intersex and questioning youth project.  

                • farnkoff says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:19 pm

                  but fair is fair-“rules of road”, Bob?

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:24 pm

                  have my comment deleted along with the abomination that prompted it.  “they” is a fucking bigot, as demonstrated by his comment above, and his several years history of attacking gay people on bmg and other blogs under a variety of user names.

                • farnkoff says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:56 pm

                  Let’s clear this screaming match…

                • they says

                  September 4, 2008 at 10:09 pm

                  Come on, stay focused.  I was responding to RioBlase, who thought that “reproductive freedom” referred only to abortion.  It doesn’t.  It means no laws against anything that anyone might want to do with regards to creating a human life, such as gamete donation, surrogacy, genetic engineering, same-sex conception, IVF, everything that the Egg and Sperm Civil Union Compromise would prohibit.  All those groups want complete reproductive freedom (sorry that list is so long) and they are mainstream, reputable groups that represent millions of people.  Are there any LGBT groups or people who would not sign that pledge?  Laurel, maybe you can find me one, since you insist they are out there.  

                • they says

                  September 4, 2008 at 10:13 pm

                  Whoops, mis-spoke there:  The Egg and Sperm Civil Union Compromise would not ban IVF or gamete donation or surrogacy, as those all combine an unmodified egg and sperm.  It would only ban the use of modified gametes, which means it would ban genetic engineering and same-sex conception.

        • ryepower12 says

          September 4, 2008 at 2:29 pm

          If you’re intellectually curious, read What’s the Matter with Kansas.  

          • mr-lynne says

            September 4, 2008 at 2:38 pm

            … The Authoritarians (free online)

            <

            p>A fascinating look at the psychology of ‘followers’.

            • kathy says

              September 4, 2008 at 5:14 pm

              His book really explains the authoritarian mindset.

              • laurel says

                September 4, 2008 at 5:21 pm

                the intro to the book that Mr Lynn liked to.  It is written by a scholar that Dean apparently heavily consulted with while writing the book your mention.

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:26 pm

                  Dean, after mining his head for useful stuff, concluded that while his lifetime of work is published in individual snippets, he should collect the overview of what he’s found and put it together in one place.  This book is the result.  I read Dean’s book first and happened on this when it was first put on the internet.  (Worse than Watergate was pretty good too).  Still trying to decide what my next book will be.  I’m thinking of maybe reading the new Alterman book next.

                • kathy says

                  September 4, 2008 at 6:54 pm

                  But there probably aren’t too many lazy beach days ahead of me in September.

                  <

                  p>I finished Naomi Klein’s book in August, and I’m about half way through Andrew Bacevich’s ‘The Limits of Power’.

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:15 pm

                  …intrigued me.  They say when you have a hammer every problem looks like a nail.  Bacevich, a military man, does the world a service by pointing out that the hammer (his hammer) only has so many uses.  Next thing you know someone will come up with a doctrine that conditions be met before it can be considered appropriate to use military power.

                  <

                  p>Oh wait.

          • fairdeal says

            September 4, 2008 at 2:56 pm

            why skewering us liberals as elitists seems like shooting fish in a barrel.

            • ryepower12 says

              September 4, 2008 at 3:21 pm

              when you go read the book. or the free one, online, that Mr. Lynne posted.  

              • fairdeal says

                September 4, 2008 at 3:37 pm

                i was commenting on frank’s ‘what’s the matter . . ‘

                <

                p>in which he seeks out every far right wingnut in the state, and then
                presents that as the typical profile of people who end up pulling republican levers on election day.

                <

                p>much to the glee and affirmation of many who have never so much as had a 20 minute conversation with anyone outside of a major cosmopolitan city, and who are quite capable of imagining anyone who goes to church or owns a shotgun, or does things that they don’t do, as a pack of prejudiced goons.

                <

                p>

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:45 pm

                  … out there on Frank’s work is Princeton professor Larry Bartels’ What’s the Matter With What’s the Matter with Kansas?

                  <

                  p>Katrina vanden Heuvel summarizes:

                  <

                  p>

                  Conclusions:

                  * Has the white working class abandoned the Democratic Party? No. White voters in the bottom third of the income distribution have actually become more reliably Democratic in presidential elections over the past half-century, while middle and upper-income white voters have trended Republican. Low-income whites have become less Democratic in their partisan identifications, but at a slower rate than more affluent whites–and that trend is entirely confined to the South, where Democratic identification was artificially inflated by the one-party system of the Jim Crow era–itself a holdover from the legacy of the Civil War and Reconstruction.

                  * Has the white working class become more conservative? No. The typical views of low-income whites have remained virtually unchanged over the past 30 years. (A pro-choice shift on abortion in the 1970s and ’80s has been partially reversed since the early 1990s.) Their positions relative to more affluent white voters–generally less liberal on social issues and less conservative on economic issues–have also remained virtually unchanged.

                  * Do working class “moral values” trump economics in determining voting patterns? No. Social issues (including abortion) are less strongly related to party identification and presidential votes than economic issues, and that is even more true for whites in the bottom third of the income distribution than for more affluent whites. Moreover, while social issue preferences have become more strongly related to presidential votes among middle- and high-income whites, there is no evidence of a corresponding trend among low-income whites.

                  * Are religious voters distracted from economic issues? No. For church-goers as for non-church-goers, partisanship and voting behavior are primarily shaped by economic issues, not cultural issues.

          • rioblaise says

            September 4, 2008 at 3:35 pm

            this comment reminded me of the South Park episode..”Die Hippie Die” where Stan and the boys come across the dreaded College Know it All Hippies and there is this one college know it all hippy who keeps dismissing everything the boys say out of annoyance and acting enlightened and adding that he has some books they should read…

            <

            p>example: When Stan says the boys are headed to a mall…this particular college know it all hippy says

            <

            p> “the malls are a way for corporate fat cats to imprison you into a life of servitude. I’ve got some stuff you should read.”

            <

            p>Funny funny episode. i highly recommend watching it.

            • laurel says

              September 4, 2008 at 3:39 pm

              to see you deriding people who read.

              • rioblaise says

                September 4, 2008 at 4:01 pm

                sigh……three things..

                <

                p>1)Do I really need to point out that I was not deriding people who read?  Do you understand what I was deriding was the condescending “you need to read this” ploy that a lot of people use in arguements. But I guess thats a good way to get defensive and blow it out of proportion rather than take a laugh at oneself.

                <

                p>I’m sure the book that was mentioned has wonderful insight. The more people read the better. Please rtecommend good books because so I can put them on my amazon wish list. I ride the train so I’m always looking for reading materials. It is just a very condescending way to dismiss someone.

                <

                p>2) It was South Park, not me. I just thought it was funny.

                <

                p>3) You wouldn’t be surprised to see my make fun of people who read? What do you think of me? Geez I don’t post much but I don’t think anything I’ve said could paint a picture of me as some backwoods troglodyte

                • rioblaise says

                  September 4, 2008 at 4:07 pm

                  if you still think gay marriage and abortions are ok then maybe you should read a book called the bible!

                  <

                  p>don’t talk to me or post anymore until you’ve read it!

                  <

                  p>(toungue in cheek to point out just how ridiculous these type of statements are)

                • laurel says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:23 pm

                  i misunderstood you.  sorry about that.  

                • rioblaise says

                  September 4, 2008 at 8:34 pm

                  no sweat

                • ryepower12 says

                  September 5, 2008 at 1:18 am

                  She summed it up quite succinctly.

                  <

                  p>And, FYI, I was intentionally condescending. The tenor of the post I replied to demanded it.

                  <

                  p>But, beyond that, I could have gone into a long winded explanation of why, yes, people often vote against their best interests and, yes, “god” and hot button issues have been used to divide.

                  <

                  p>Instead, there was a book that, while it likely didn’t originate the idea, introduced millions of Americans to it. Why? Because it made the argument coherently – and, quite frankly, better than I could make it.

                  <

                  p>Thus, I spared us all the long-winded explanation and pointed out the book. I would have done so in a less condescending way if I thought the original poster was interested in a real conversation. Tenor in the blogs matter, because I’m not going to waste my time on someone who’s just not that interested.

                • rioblaise says

                  September 5, 2008 at 3:41 am

                  no ryepower, she was wrong. She said I was deriding people who read. I was deriding you and your condescending attitude. You just happen to read. And I happen to agree  with your point of view that it wasn’t worth the effort to do the longwinded reply but its just the manner in which you espouse it happens to irritate me..and so i tried to take a lighthearted jab at you.

                  <

                  p>And you responded with giving me a low rating. Thats the natural progression of things it seems.

                  <

                  p>

      • kbusch says

        September 4, 2008 at 2:33 pm

        Some believe that God rewards the righteous with wealth. In that light, controlling the lives of others benefits the community and possibly individuals.

        <

        p>Similar arguments cost many medieval Jews their lives.

    • charley-on-the-mta says

      September 4, 2008 at 11:57 am

      both mentioned that Obama’s tax cuts will reach 95% of the public; McCain’s affect fewer and richer people, and cost three times as much to the Treasury.

    • johnd says

      September 4, 2008 at 12:54 pm

      And stop the remarks about people making a lot of money. BO reported $4.2 MILLION INCOME for 2007. NOT BAD!!!! His wife was pulling in $315,000 per year from her VP job at the hospital… NOT BAD!!! Any poor Democrat Politicians in Washington? How about Deval… food stamps??? Plenty of rich democrats in this country.

      <

      p>And please CONTINUE to fool yourself that only the rich people you described are for Sarah. There is a SHITLOAD of people who will be voting for her in November. She is the epitome of an American who has lived an amazing life and did it all on her own with not artificial help.

      <

      p>Every time one you guys go against BO’s marching order …

      <

      p>

      “Let me be as clear as possible,” Obama said. “I think people’s families are off-limits, and people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president.”

      Obama said reporters should “back off these kinds of stories” and noted that he was born to an 18-year-old mother.

      <

      p>…another person decides to vote for McCain/Palin so by all means keep up the smearing!!!!

      • johnk says

        September 4, 2008 at 1:19 pm

        a shitload of people will vote for the McCain/Palin ticket.  But a shitload of people would also vote for a tree stump if you an (R) at the end of it’s name.  What Palin has been doing is more rallying the base.  Is that what McCain needs to do in order to win?  Or does he need to get independent voters.  Unlike yourself, I think crying and complaining is not what is going to get votes.  McCain/Palin ticket have not talked about why continuing George Bush’s economic policies are going to help them considering it’s been a miserable failure so far.  Same can be said on the international front.  Listen to Palin’s speech, what did she say to defend McCain’s positions and how it’s going to work now.  We all know they didn’t work before, what has changed?  

        <

        p>Crickets??? from McCain and now Palin.

  2. cannoneo says

    September 4, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    One thing this convention shows is the GOP has doubled down on tribalism. Policies are irrelevant, it’s all biography — apotheosizing their own and mocking their opponents’.

    <

    p>No one should allow the term “identity politics” to be identified any more with Jesse Jackson, or college multiculturalism programs, or anything else other than these hero/victim complexes on display in MN.  

    • johnd says

      September 4, 2008 at 12:57 pm

      Tribalism, irrelevant policies, biographies… maybe you could have commented as such if the DNC hadn’t occurred yet but to do his now makes you sound like another famous Dem… Ludicrous!

      • cannoneo says

        September 4, 2008 at 1:10 pm

        Dems didn’t do tribalism, they did party pride – with the implication that anyone and everyone is welcome to join the club. The platform contains identity-representation stuff but it wasn’t what was on sale, ideas were.

        <

        p>Dem biography was balanced and matched up with specific policies.

        <

        p>GOP, on the other hand, said veterans and hockey moms rule the tribe, while community organizers, high-achieving students, liberals, actors, and cosmopolitans(!) don’t even belong – they jeered and hissed those people – they’re not wanted.

        <

        p>All the major Dem speakers said “we love John McCain, but we disagree with him on policies X, Y, and Z.” The GOP speakers said Obama doesn’t know who he is (an insult that goes to his biracial parentage). His very life’s journey was a punchline for Rudy: “only in America!”

        <

        p>I’m not saying GOP policies are irrelevant, I’m saying they haven’t even advanced policies, because they don’t matter any more. In truth, for 8 years GOP rule has grown the government and made it much more intrusive, the opposite of what the party was supposed to stand for.

        <

        p>

        • politicalengineer says

          September 4, 2008 at 1:29 pm

          BHO and the entire DNC went through great pains to give respect where respect is due.

          <

          p>

          “It’s not because John McCain doesn’t care. It’s because John McCain doesn’t get it.”

          <

          p>That’s the tone of campaigning and politics that I wanna see from now on. Palin’s snark and sarcasm in her speech last night is a disappointment to me, attack dog role or no.

          <

          p>If I wanted snark, I would have tuned into Keller @ Large.

        • johnd says

          September 4, 2008 at 3:58 pm

          You may call it “tribalism” but maybe it is more of including the people who agree and distancing or “excluding” people whom you feel are against you. You may see no difference but I do. It just may happen that the ideology of the Democratic party is more diverse than the Republican party so it appears more inclusive but it really just lining up with existing ideology. Maybe I’m wrong.

          <

          p>said veterans and hockey moms rule the tribe

          <

          p>Doesn’t the party have the right to praise people when they want to? While Democrats rage class warfare by deriding anyone who has been successful, can’t Republicans acknowledge plain people and veterans?

          <

          p>community organizers

          <

          p>Wonderful people but not a significant credential for the Presidency. How about Editor of the High School yearbook and President of Prom Planning committee… great to do but not relevant.

          <

          p>high-achieving students – What criticism do Republicans have for these students?

          <

          p>liberals – Liberals and Conservative are ideologically opposed so what would you expect?

          <

          p>actors – Useless. I guess we believe these people should just do what they do… act. I like to listen to informed people, even when I disagree with them. There are Democratic pundits who are quite well informed on both Democratic and Republican positions so I learn something. Who gives a shit ow Sean Penn feelsabout George Bush? Certainly he is entitled to a position and free speech, but don’t put him in front of a mike like he’s a political genius.

          <

          p>cosmopolitans(!) – If you are trying to win the hearts of the common people, paint your opponant as not in touch with them (you know, the way Democrats try to paint Republicans as old rich white guys…) then this is ok too.

          <

          p>they jeered and hissed those people – grow some think skin. This is a political race and there has been much odiferous material thrown from both sides. At least I can admit that about my side and I’m sorry you believe your people to be blameless (PS Why else would Obama plead with the Dems to stop the remarks about Palin’s family? Because you guys were smearing her!!!)

          • kbusch says

            September 4, 2008 at 4:05 pm

            My congratulations.

            <

            p>Picking just one example: no one is arguing about “rights”.

          • cannoneo says

            September 4, 2008 at 4:42 pm

            If you don’t perceive that demonization has overwhelmed whatever message the GOP had, then I’m not going to convince you of it.

            <

            p>I’m not complaining or feeling hurt. I’m just making a point that the GOP does not argue for policy any more but just invokes tribal belonging.

            <

            p>The last two nights were devoted almost entirely to emotional cues: long, detailed description of the suffering of the leader in Hanoi, and sustained mockery of the enemy.  

            • librus says

              September 4, 2008 at 7:22 pm

              for every time I heard the phrase “south side of Chicago”…

          • bob-neer says

            September 4, 2008 at 5:36 pm

            You claim “Plenty of rich democrats in this country.” and then try simultaneously to claim “class warfare.” Can’t have it both ways in reality, I’m afraid.

            • johnd says

              September 4, 2008 at 7:56 pm

              The Democrats LOVE to play the class warfare all the time. Sure there are plenty of rich Democrats, maybe more than Republicans but who does the media make a mockery of… Republicans. The “image” of old white rich men being the Republican party is alive and well, live on mainstream media and spewed by democrats everywhere. Read blogs on this site about “rich republicans” “trust fund babies” and this is class warfare. This warfare propaganda doesn’t have to have any resemblance to the truth for the Dems to use it and they do.

              <

              p>So I can “claim Plenty of rich democrats in this country.” and then try simultaneously to claim “class warfare” just as easily as pundits can cry about smearing people while they actively smear people… they are mutually exclusive… IMO.

              • lodger says

                September 5, 2008 at 6:19 am

                ….”tax cuts for the rich”. If that isn’t a class warfare slogan I don’t know what is.

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 5, 2008 at 9:33 am

                  … is class warfare what does that say about the policy?

                • lodger says

                  September 5, 2008 at 7:34 pm

                  They were tax cuts for almost everyone. I got one, did you? Are you rich? I’m not, but who cares if someone else is? Wealth doesn’t guarantee happiness. I’m happy and I hope you are too.
                  …and I hope those rich people are too. I’m employed by one.

  3. judy-meredith says

    September 4, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Great post Charlie.

    <

    p>For what it is worth, I’ve been very disturbed to read some of the recent posts here and on other political blogs that are full of negative energy pointing out all the Governor’s family “troubles and questioning her parenting skills.I’ve been worried these posts would backfire on us and be characterized as attacks on working moms who happen to be politically active.  

    <

    p>Who among us as activist parents raising children hasn’t faced troubled children and questioned our own capacities to be effective activists and good parents at the same time.

    <

    p>Granted I’ve only a little bit of anecdotal evidence from my political middle of the road friends, family and neighbors who cautioned me, as a self identified liberal, to be careful.

    <

    p>This morning my neighbor pointed out this quote in the Herald.

    <

    p>

    Hawaiian Gov. Linda Lingle said Palin’s family “faces the same challenges that moms and dads do, every single day in our country. Difficult things happen to families, and just like yours, families pull together and get through it. She will not be trying to reinvent herself during this campaign. She is who she is.”

    <

    p>My neighbor said “you should relate to that” and I do confess that as a Mother of five grown children I have had my fair share  of pulling together and getting through one crisis after another.

    <

    p>It is very important that we take your advice and focus now on educating ourselves and our family and our neighbors about how Governor Palin has contradicted herself over and over around some of controversial explosive policy positions like earmarks for the Bridge to Nowhere, global warming, family planning etc etc.

    <

    p>So keep making the list and posting it here. I, for one,  pledge to check it daily.

    <

    p>

  4. strat0477 says

    September 4, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    that it was people like Palin that he had to organize people against to get anything done.

    <

    p>No matter what, we should lay off the experience arguments. Obama is not gonna win that argument. Period. Doesn’t mean he will be a bad president. But it highlights Obama’s perceived weaknesses way too much. And I’m sorry, but Palin can make the stronger case.

    <

    p>The same could probably be said for Palin’s flip-flops (BtoN). Do we really want to get in a competition to determine who has the most – or most significant – changes of mind?

    <

    p>Stick to the facts that trickle-down economics does not work, and that we have a whole lot of better things to do with $10 billion per month than send it to Iraq.

    • librus says

      September 4, 2008 at 7:24 pm

      period

  5. lspinti says

    September 4, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    The night before John McCain revealed his choice of Sarah Palin to be his VP, I called several friends and family members to say that my worst fear was that McCain was about to pick Palin as his running mate. I had been reading about her for six weeks and thought that her story would wow the Republican base. The GOP is now however recasting her to some extent in the image they wish to present. I had read that Palin had been quite intrigued with Obama’s success building a movement to change Washington and had even praised his then recent energy plan at her website which of course now has been taken down. Here is what I saw there in early August:

    <

    p>Palin Pleased with Obama’s Energy Plan

    <

    p>August 4, 2008, Fairbanks, Alaska – Governor Sarah Palin today responded to the energy plan put forward by the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

    <

    p>”I am pleased to see Senator Obama acknowledge the huge potential Alaska’s natural gas reserves represent in terms of clean energy and sound jobs,” Governor Palin said. “The steps taken by the Alaska State Legislature this past week demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to supply the energy our nation needs.”

    <

    p>In a speech given in Lansing, Michigan, Senator Obama called for the completion of the Alaska natural gas pipeline, stating, “Over the next five years, we should also lease more of the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska for oil and gas production. And we should also tap more of our substantial natural gas reserves and work with the Canadian government to finally build the Alaska natural gas pipeline, delivering clean natural gas and creating good jobs in the process.”

    <

    p>Governor Palin also acknowledged the Senator’s proposal to offer $1,000 rebates to those struggling with the high cost of energy.

    <

    p>”We in Alaska feel that crunch and are taking steps to address it right here at home,” Governor Palin said. “This is a tool that must be on the table to buy us time until our long-term energy plans can be put into place. We have already enjoyed the support of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and it is gratifying to see Senator Obama get on board.”

    <

    p>The Governor did question the means to pay for Obama’s proposed rebate – a windfall profits tax on oil companies. In Alaska, the state’s resource valuation system, ACES, provides strong incentives for companies to re-invest their profits in new production.

    <

    p>”Windfall profits taxes alone prevent additional investment in domestic production. Without new supplies from American reserves, our dependency and addiction to foreign sources of oil will continue,” Governor Palin said.

    <

    p>We Democrats have our work cut out for us. Palin was handed an opportunity here and has grabbed hold for all it’s worth (and it’s worth a lot!)  While I’m glad to see that the media is already poiting out her distortions and inconsistentcies, she will be a ferocious attack dog for McCain and a tremendous charmer that will distract from the truth about the last 8 years of Bush and how McCain will be more of the same.

    <

    p>LSPinti

    <

    p>

  6. gary says

    September 4, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    1:

    Including, I suspect, one pitbull-with-lipstick. How is this reference not the same kind of contemptuous elitism the GOP purports to object to so strenuously — just against urban people of color?

    <

    p>Huh? You’re kidding, right? ‘urban people of color’?  I’m thinking you’re probably the only human, on earth who might have concluded that.  It was a cute joke, well told and actually quite old. I’ve heard it before with respect to little league moms; female attorneys…

    <

    p>2: It was a good speech, well presented.  So subjective, right?  Well, that was my opinion.  You can disagree, nyah, nyah, no it wasn’t, yes it was…but, she did show poise, had the audience on its feet and sent them out with enthusiasm which makes for a motivated voter.

    <

    p>3: Bridge to nowhere.  Yes she did; no she didn’t.  The Bridge wasn’t in her 1st budget.  Nuance the rest.  No legs on that one for middle class voters.

    <

    p>4: Snobbery about Obama’s ‘community organizing’.  I don’t know if it’s snobbery or not, because I don’t know what a ‘community organizer’ does. Is it neatening and straightening? I know, I know.  I should read Bob’s Obama for Dummies book, but I haven’t.

    <

    p>5:  Lower taxes.  Their (McCain/Palin) position is that the administration will lower taxes.  Obama’s position is that his admistration will raise taxes.  Call me out on that if incorrect.  But the nuance that there as tax cut on 95% of middle class, raise in some capital gains but not other, tax on some business, death tax on some estates but not others, carry the one and divide by pi….

    <

    p>Palin called for lower taxes. Big picture: “Taxes are too high … he wants to raise them.”  Well said.

    <

    p>6: Red meat.  Cool, she’s a tough VP who can field dress a yellow breasted left leaning harpie.  That’s what Veeps do lately, attack dogs (in lipstick) for the man. I’m sure much of that speech was written for her, and she delivered the red meat.

    <

    p>7: Good mix-up, introducing herself, praising John McCain and discussing policy.  Back and forth.

    <

    p>All in all, it was a very good speech, nicely delivered and easy to dance to.  I’ll give it an 8.

    • charley-on-the-mta says

      September 4, 2008 at 1:13 pm

      ” I should read Bob’s Obama for Dummies book, but I haven’t. “

      <

      p>Of course you should! Or just click the link I put in the post. Or read Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” and “Reveille for Radicals” — which despite their titles and his Eastern-European, commie-sounding name, are not particularly radical … Unless one thinks non-affluent urban people having power over their own neighborhoods is “radical.” Maybe it is.

    • cannoneo says

      September 4, 2008 at 1:19 pm

      It’s staffed by organizers who train community leaders in dozens of churches and synagogues all over greater Boston.  

      • gary says

        September 4, 2008 at 1:32 pm

        I’m not putting anyone down. I just don’t know what a “community organizer” does and I’m a pretty well informed guy, I think.

        <

        p>I’m just saying that when she compared her work as mayor to his work as community organizer, most people have some idea what a mayor is, but most people haven’t a clue what a community organizer does, or what Mr. Obama did.  It was therefore, in my estimation, a good rhetorical device.  

        • mr-lynne says

          September 4, 2008 at 1:39 pm

          … but I’ll bet there are more people who know an organizer personally than know a mayor.

        • laurel says

          September 4, 2008 at 1:59 pm

          i’m surprised the obama campaign hasn’t yet made this point.  anyone who goes to an evangelical church know exactly what a community organizer is,  they just don’t call it that.  jesus was a community organizer, after all.  guess palin doesn’t think he’s be qualified to be prez.

          • gary says

            September 4, 2008 at 2:15 pm

            jesus was a community organizer, after all.  guess palin doesn’t think he’s be qualified to be prez.

            <

            p>No, not a natural born citizen, plus, he’s dead.

            • laurel says

              September 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm

              if you ask Palin, she’ll tell you that Jesus lives.  The citizen thing might be a problem though, you’re right.  As a bearded Semite with an accent, he might not even have been allowed into the arena to hear his daughter blaspheme His father last night.

              • mr-lynne says

                September 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

                … temple and the moneylenders when watching the video of her asking the devout to pray for her secular fiscal agenda.

                • fairdeal says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:03 pm

                  natural gas pipelines in judea back then . . .

      • charley-on-the-mta says

        September 4, 2008 at 2:26 pm

        … was my introduction to the whole style of activism. They are a fantastic, vital, and powerful organization. There might well be no health care law in MA without them.

    • tom-m says

      September 4, 2008 at 1:43 pm

      Including, I suspect, one pitbull-with-lipstick. How is this reference not the same kind of contemptuous elitism the GOP purports to object to so strenuously — just against urban people of color?

      Huh? You’re kidding, right? ‘urban people of color’?  I’m thinking you’re probably the only human, on earth who might have concluded that.  It was a cute joke, well told and actually quite old. I’ve heard it before with respect to little league moms; female attorneys…

      <

      p>Charley’s not saying the pit bull/lipstick joke was contemptuous elitisim.  I’m pretty sure he’s referring to “her dismissal of Obama’s community organizing experience…” as noted above the quote.

      <

      p>Read the whole passage again.

      • gary says

        September 4, 2008 at 1:54 pm

        In context with the quote, Charley’s comment makes sense.  

        <

        p>I still think comparing a mayor (a well known thing) to a community organizer (an unknown thing) is pretty effective whether it’s nuanced or not into elitism.

        • tom-m says

          September 4, 2008 at 2:06 pm

          If she wants to compare her experience of running a town of 20 months ago, to BO’s experience as a community organizer 20 years ago, that’s fine.  But to then add that an organizer doesn’t “have actual responsibilities” is a slap in the face to all those who are working in the trenches of inner cities to make a difference.

          <

          p>A year and a half ago, she was the Mayor of a town smaller than the bleachers at Fenway Park.  Let’s not overstate her “responsibilities.”

          • gary says

            September 4, 2008 at 2:12 pm

            Frankly, I think if the Democrats make such a deal of comparing her (the veep) record to Obama’s, they’re taking their eye off the ball.

            <

            p>Addendum, re: the speech.  Consider this.  It was probably the biggest crowd she’s ever faced, to deliver a speech she’d had only days to consider, facing the highest expectations imagineable and she looked like ice.    

            • mr-lynne says

              September 4, 2008 at 2:20 pm

              … Christians often have as an advantage is that they tend to be more comfortable speakers.  I think this comes from the exposure to public speaking many get in giving witness.  I wouldn’t go so far as to say she looked like ice, but she did seem comfortable if not dynamic.  Funny enough I think Rudy was more dynamic and maybe a little less comfortable.

              • huh says

                September 4, 2008 at 2:59 pm

                Being successful requires considerable poise, but also explains the lack of dynamics.  

              • lodger says

                September 5, 2008 at 6:26 am

                it’s pretty broad.

                <

                p>

                … Christians often have as an advantage is that they tend to be more comfortable speakers

                • mr-lynne says

                  September 5, 2008 at 9:37 am

                  … and I guess I should have added the additional qualifier “candidate”, since those who have become comfortable public speakers in church are more likely (probably) to stand for office than those who didn’t.  In a room full of candidates I’d be willing to bet that the comfort level of public speaking is higher among evangelical Christian candidates in a statistically meaningful measure.  It’d be an interesting study anyway.

            • noternie says

              September 4, 2008 at 2:52 pm

              The Dems need to rip McCain. Quayle was as mocked and belittled as any politician in history…right through his four years in the White House.

              <

              p>McCain. They need to go after McCain. Palin is established as a flawed candidate. The elepahants know she’s flawed in the eyes of the general public. But they didn’t pick her for the general public. They picked her for the evangelicals and conservatives who were lukewarm for McCain, at best.

              <

              p>Palin fans can not be won over. Non Palin fans may still vote for McCain. So the issue has to be tied more closely to McCain (only the first really bad choice) when discussed at all.

              <

              p>But the biggest issue is McCain, not Palin.

  7. johnd says

    September 4, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Her dismissal of Obama’s community organizing experience shows ignorant snobbery

    <

    p>It is an example of what a joke BO’s candidacy is. You democrats are so blind you can’t see anything objectively anymore. Borack Obama’s ENTIRE campaign has been based on his oration. Back in 2004 when he made the speech at the 2004 DNC, people were awestruck by him… I’ll correct my self, BY HIS SPEECH! People who knew NOTHING about him were excited, talk of BO in the 2012 Presidency (since Kerry would be in for 2 terms) was rampant by people who knew NOTHING about him. And, that’s becasue there is nothing more about him.

    <

    p>If he were white, he would be behind all the other more senior, experienced and time-tested other Democrats running for the office. Do you all have to wait until a later date (like Geraldine Ferraro had to) before you can admit race (and gender for her) were his/her reasons for the nomination?

    <

    p>Community Organizer is a great experience… for the next person running the City homeless shelter or maybe the State Department of Public Welfare… not President of the US. When people get interviewed for jobs the person’s “RELEVANT” experience is hat’s important and not the “wonderful” things they have done in their life! Same here.

    • dmac says

      September 4, 2008 at 1:54 pm

      A speech?

      • laurel says

        September 4, 2008 at 2:01 pm

        It doesn’t take much.

        • edgarthearmenian says

          September 4, 2008 at 3:19 pm

          In the section of reactions to last night’s speech on Boston.com, a woman couldn’t understand why Palin sounded like a democrat.  Of course the woman wasn’t going to vote for Palin.  The reason Palin scares all of you is that she represents all of us who used to be democrats but who have grown up in this crazy, politically-correct democrat party run by Harvard/Yale law school graduates and left-wing nut jobs. The more that you people squeal about her the more humorous it becomes.  I just love this site!

          • laurel says

            September 4, 2008 at 3:37 pm

            she appeals to bitter and sadistic people who feel inferior?  well, i guess that does fit with my thoughts expressed above.

            • edgarthearmenian says

              September 4, 2008 at 3:55 pm

              Where does that phrase come from?  The only bitter and sadistic people I know are those people who actually believed that Kerry would win in 2004.  Please don’t end up that way after a McCain/Palin win this year.

              • johnd says

                September 4, 2008 at 4:19 pm

                The “blue” lens worn by many bloggers here distorts reality for them. They complain about class warfare but when I read the comments here I see “hatred” for anyone making good money (the rich). They hate the rich and the funny thing is there are many rich Democrats (like Obama the millionaire as Paul from Cambridge admitted today) are rich. They complain about smearing but have been smearing in overdrive for a week now. They talk of “fear mongers” but I hear lots and lots of “If McCain wins…” “Roe will be overturned” “Education will collapse…”.

                <

                p>Hypocrites populate this site and venomous personal attacks will result from anyone disagreeing with them.

                <

                p>I can only hope to blog about the reversal of same-sex marriage to Laurel when we take over the Supreme Court and win back the House and Senate.

                <

                p>BTW, they have no sense of humor so don’t try any jokes (like Sarah) or risk being labeled Sarcastic and snarky!!!

                <

                p>How many budgets has BO balanced? Can vote “present” on a budget or veto or… so many other issues/problems when you’re President.

                • bob-neer says

                  September 4, 2008 at 5:42 pm

                  And he is pretty rich. Barack Obama too (although by John McCain’s “$5 million” definition Obama is middle class.

                  <

                  p>Please try to focus on the facts.

                • johnd says

                  September 4, 2008 at 7:37 pm

                  He Bob, why don’t you take a shot at the question nobody seems to want to answer… How much money does someone have to make to be rich? John McCain at least had the nags to answer vs. coping a “present” vote.

                  <

                  p>THanks for the clarification since although I would consider it slightly hypocrisy to hate rich people and constantly push class warfare while admitting the Democrats who are rich are just rosy!

          • gary says

            September 4, 2008 at 3:41 pm

            Put a ‘D’ after her name, and she’d be the darling of the Massachusetts political click, like Hillary is, who slept her way to a position of power. Not that perhaps she couldn’t have done it herself otherwise, but she didn’t.

            <

            p>So you take an independent and very successful woman with confidence and poise, packin’ heat, pushing out entrenched politicians and getting elected to high office in her own right and by her own will and those same Massachusetts politicians shreik that women aren’t interchangeable.  We want women in office but only ones that agree with us. Diversity in gender and color, but not ideas.

            • laurel says

              September 4, 2008 at 3:45 pm

              or are you us that you’d be fine if palin bowed out so hillary could be the gop vp candidate?  yeah, right.

            • bob-neer says

              September 4, 2008 at 5:43 pm

              Do you have any evidence for that, or is it just a gratuitous anti-women comment?

              • gary says

                September 4, 2008 at 6:49 pm

                I assume she ‘slept’ with her husband.

                <

                p>Are you making the argument that being the wife of Bill Clinton DIDN’T assist her to current status?

                • strat0477 says

                  September 4, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    • ryepower12 says

      September 4, 2008 at 2:25 pm

      what obama’s entire campaign is about. You only get to decide how it makes you feel. We know how you feel; we feel differently; get over it.

      <

      p>A community organizer is great experience for anyone who wants to have a better understanding of how people live in this country, or who want to serve this country and its people who need it most. As Laurel said, Jesus was a freaking community organizer. As I said, get over it.  

  8. lspinti says

    September 4, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    The Obama Campaign and the media better refute all those GOP untruths.

    <

    p>From the Dallas Morning News:

    <

    p>Palin last night: I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a “community organizer,” except that you have actual responsibilities.

    <

    p>Now, the truth is that, starting at age 23, Obama ran a faith-based charity called the Developing Communities Project.

    <

    p>It was made up of eight Catholic parishes when he got there and had one staff member. He was its director, meaning he was in charge. He made decisions about it, including staffing, budgets, etc. And when he left in 1988 to go to law school, he had grown its budget from $70,000 to $400,000, its staff from 1 to 13 people. More important, he created a job training program for this community and a college prep tutoring program.

    • theloquaciousliberal says

      September 4, 2008 at 2:59 pm

      I don’t think it’s going to be worthwhile to try to make it out like being a community organizer is really a “bigger” job than being a small town mayor.  Personally, I think it is a more important job but there’s no way the average person will be convinced of that.  

      <

      p>The way to respond to this line of attack is, instead, to point out all of the other things Obama has done since graduating college in 1983 (25 years ago!):

      <

      p>May 1983- April 1984: Employee of the Business International Corporation

      <

      p>May 1984-June 1985: Staffer at the New York Public Interest Research Group.

      <

      p>June 1985-May 1988: “Community organizer” and director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP).

      <

      p>Summer 1988: Travels in Europe and Kenya (with passport!).

      <

      p>Fall 1988-May 1991: Harvard Law School.

      <

      p>1992 – 2004: Professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.

      <

      p>1995: Finished and published Dreams from My Father.

      <

      p>1993-1996: Associate at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development.

      <

      p>1996-2004: Of counsel at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.

      <

      p>1996-2004: Illinois State Legislator.

      <

      p>2005-Present: United State Senator and candidate for President. Publishes the Audacity of Hope.

      <

      p>That’s all pretty impressive stuff, at least to me.

      <

      p>Compare that to Palin’s resume since she graduated college in 1987 (21 years ago):

      <

      p>1988: Sports reporter for KTUU-TV in Anchorage, Alaska.  “Helped out” with her husband’s family commercial fishing business.

      <

      p>1992-1996: Served two three year terms as a Wasilla City Councilor.

      <

      p>1996- 2002: Mayor of the City of Wassilla.

      <

      p>2002-2004: Appointed Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

      <

      p>2003 to June 2005: One of three Directors of “Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.,” a 527 group.

      <

      p>2006-2008: Governor of Alaska. Gets first passport in 2006.

      <

      p>There’s really little comparison here.  But we’ll lose in the public debate if everything is focused on the community organizer side of Obama’s resume rather than emphasizing the broad range of his 25 years of experience.  

      • strat0477 says

        September 4, 2008 at 3:45 pm

        Good point, but conservatives will argue that it is the quality, not the quantity, of experience she has.

      • fairdeal says

        September 4, 2008 at 4:37 pm

        is for joe biden to graciously eviscerate her in a debate.

        • gary says

          September 4, 2008 at 6:51 pm

          the way to respond to palin’s experience is for joe biden to graciously eviscerate her in a debate.

          <

          p>With his years of experience, both as a Senator and a Presidential Candidate, anything less is truly a loss for Senator Biden.

    • they says

      September 4, 2008 at 5:47 pm

      How did he “grow its budget” to $400,000?  All it says is that he’s good at getting his hands on money and hiring staff with it.  It’s like his claim about how big his campaign is – yes, we know he’s raising tons of money from donations and we presume he’s able to figure out things to spend it all on.  It’d be more impressive if he had a smaller campaign, and shrank the budget of his “Project”.

      <

      p>I don’t want someone to have that approach to spending my money.  

  9. strat0477 says

    September 4, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Pretty obvious we got suckered on this one.

    <

    p>All the “hype” before her speech led to 37 million people watching her speech last night. That’s pretty much the same as Obama.

    <

    p>Only difference – we’re still talking about Palin’s speech the day after.

    <

    p>Live and Learn

    • laurel says

      September 4, 2008 at 6:35 pm

      Here is my response to the same sentiment over at RMG:
      Sarah Who?
      Not surprising a lot of people watched her speech, since this was the first time the general public had a chance to hear from a totally unknown entity who wants to be elected VP in just 2 short months.  So the large viewership represents curiosity rather than adoration.  Whereas Obama was a well known entity by the time of his speech last week, so his large viewership represented more true support (and of course some curiosity too).

      • strat0477 says

        September 4, 2008 at 6:47 pm

        And just what in the hell made them so curious?

        <

        p>You think 37 million people would have tuned in to see that woman speak if she hadn’t been in the news with all the sensational bullshit for 5 days?

        <

        p>C’mon…are you really going to make that argument?

        <

        p>There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging an opponent won a round or two. Doesn’t make us any less smart.

        • laurel says

          September 4, 2008 at 6:53 pm

          were of course goopers who would watch even it had been romney.  but yes, i’m saying that a lot of people tuned in just out of curiosity.  would they have done so she hadn’t ridden in on the mccain non-vetting fiasco express?  i sure hope so, but we’ll never know, will we?

  10. librus says

    September 4, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    Obama snickering that he has more campaign workers than she has employees as the governor of Alaska?  And as long as she can display Obama’s level of expertise on the pressing issues of the day (i.e. none), I guess she’s ok.  

    • laurel says

      September 4, 2008 at 7:20 pm

      Ooh, we can only hope she tries!  Her boss still doesn’t know that Iran sits between Iraq & Pakistan.  I wonder if she can describe the similarities and differences between Sunni & Shiite, and the foreign policy ramifications thereof.

      <

      p>Debate Moderator: Define “Sunni” and “Shiite”
      Palin:  “Sunni” means you need to wear sun block, and “Shiite” is the cuss word to use when you realize the guy who invited you to run for vice president is a scary old fool.

      • strat0477 says

        September 4, 2008 at 7:27 pm

        At least Palin knows she is the governor of the 50th state, and not the 57th

        • kbusch says

          September 5, 2008 at 1:59 am

          http://vps28478.inmotionhosting.com/~bluema24/s…

      • librus says

        September 4, 2008 at 7:34 pm

        that was in response to my post?  I thought you might offer some evidence that Obama has more expertise, but instead you make an incredibly elitist (and bad) joke which attempts to portray Palin as just another redneck west of the Connecticut river.

  11. cadmium says

    September 4, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    grassroots network is.  I ran into a lot of people at work today who never stay up for anything but important ballgames and never talk politics ask me “did you see the speech?”     I think that the rw talk shows were very effective in rallying people to watch last night.   Not to mention the fundi churches.  

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