Blue Mass Group

Reality-based commentary on politics.

At what age is it appropriate for children to start smoking pot?

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A friend of mine, casual smoker, was all gung ho for Q2 and asked me where I stood.  I told him I was voting no because I was more concerned about “the kids” in this case.

As a libertarian, though, I’m not distraught that 2 passed.

But it does raise the question:  what is the right age in your view for children to be able to smoke pot?  13? 16?  18?  21?  Any age?

It would be odd if the age was less than the drinking age, which BTW I would support lowering AT LEAST to 18 if not removing entirely.

To me 18 makes sense because thats voting / military / jail age.  At some point you have to cut the apron strings and be fully responsible for yourself, and I think 18 works.

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  1. Unfortunatly some a**hats think 18 is old enough to take a bullet, but not old enough to drink a beer.

  2. Because pot is still illegal.
    As a philosophical matter, if it was legal I an argument could be made for tying it to the drinking age.

  4. Only adults should smoke pot.  Or vote.  Or fight in a war.  Or drink.  Or gamble.  Or smoke cigarettes.  Or pay taxes.  Or be eligible for prison.  Or have sex.  Or get married.  Or get a tattoo.

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    p>Unlike others, I don’t believe that adult is the same age for all actions.  I don’t have any problem with the drinking age being different from the voting age being different from the marriage age.  I don’t always agree with the numbers assigned to each, but I do believe that the ability to behave responsibly changes over time and actions or decisions with different complexities or magnitudes of ramification warrant different ages for permission.

  5. Why don’t we know?

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    p>Because pot is illegal and we cannot conduct studies on it.

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    p>It seems safe. It might be safe. But we use science to tell “seem” from “is”.

  6. I’d get rid of the drinking age entirely.  I don’t think it does any good, only harm.  Ironically, I think lowering the drinking age past a certain point might do more harm.  For example, it may be more harmful if it were 16, than if it were 18.  But no drinking age at all would definitely be best.

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    p>Same for marijuana, although less important because marijuana is medically safe, causes no danger to others, and has much milder associated social problems than acohol does.

        • because they can’t be expected to behave responsibly in the world at large.  They haven’t matured yet.  That’s exactly why we as a society restrict their behavior.  They must go to school, for example.

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          p>Since I don’t trust a 12 year old to make good decisions when sober, I think allowing him to become intoxicated is a terribly unsafe idea.

          • From what I’ve read years ago, pot affects athletic performance adversely. Could it adversely affect some kinds of learning? Don’t know. That could be a reason to keep it out of the hands of school aged children.

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            p>I took Demolisher as saying he thought there was something wrong with a 12 year old simply smoking pot. He didn’t go so far as to imagine the 12 year old had a stash and chose to use it.

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            p>Aside from the legal risks, what do we think is wrong with a 12 year old smoking pot under parental guidance?

            • though not one that I would ever expect to be asked;  I almost think you’re playing Devil’s Advocate, but so be it – off hand I’d say things that are bad about a 12yo smoking pot would include:

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              p>- health risks (lung damage, stunted growth)
              – impaired ability to learn while under the influence
              – risk of dependency
              – “gateway drug” issues
              – compounded child-level judgement and risk taking behavior
              – adverse impact on brain chemistry esp. during developmental years
              – weight gain or loss  (depending on whether munchies or apathy dominate)

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              p>I’m not sure what the other side effects are but I think there are more.

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              p>The worst of them to me are impact on brain and body development, especially around chemical balance in the brain, learning impact, and impairing judgement that is not even very good to begin with.

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              p>

              • The “adverse impact on brain chemistry” would seem pretty significant. I haven’t looked into it. Doesn’t seem implausible. Is there research there?

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                p>Also I’d be surprised if adults are unaffected.

                • which does not necessarily prove which causes which (do people smoke because they are depressed? ), and here are some more:

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                  p>http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofa…

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                  p>

                  Marijuana and Mental Health
                  A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders6. High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction, and research suggests that in vulnerable individuals, marijuana use may be a factor that increases risk for the disease.

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                  p>Its hard to believe the causality is all one way there, but in any case thats a world of hurt.

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                  p>More:

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                  p>

                  Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.

                  Research on the long-term effects of marijuana abuse indicates some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system3 and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine.4 Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.

                • … whatever research is out there isn’t very reliable.  My understanding is that the restrictions on handling the substance itself for science purposes is still pretty outrageous for any new research and the old research was pretty biased toward promoting a reefer madness theme for law enforcement.

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                  p>Rick Steves has an excellent video in advocacy.  I haven’t really heard anyone debunk it but I haven’t really been looking either,… so take it for what its worth.

            • with 12 year olds smoking pot under parental guidance, perhaps someone can also compile a list of a few of the primary benefits of a 12 year old child smoking pot under parental guidance.

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              p>and ‘so they can learn how to properly catch a cool buzz’ doesn’t count.

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              p>

      • I’d prefer that nobody get drunk, for example, and certainly not a 12 year old.  On the other hand, when I was young, I grew up in a country with no drinking age and much less problems with drinking than the US has.  And I have definitely seen 12 year olds smoking pot in the US – not only did the laws not prevent it, but it also doesn’t seem to have stopped some of them from leading much healthier lives than people who have never smoked pot.  I don’t care what “just seems a little wrong to you”, having ages for these substances is an utter failure, and does damage people’s lives, while not in any way causing people to be more responsible about substance use than they would be without these legal ages.

  7. when i was 13, i probably wouldn’t have become a regular user of cocaine and lsd while i was still in my teens.

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    p>luckily i then went off to college, wised up, matured a little, and ended all of that foolishness for good. but what of the kids who weren’t quite as lucky to get into a more focused productive environment?

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    p>if anyone doesn’t believe that marijuana is a gateway drug for young people, they are not living in the real world.

    • what i deduce from your testimonial is that it doesn’t matter if an official age limit is set, since people who choose to use drugs will use them regardless of age limits or legality.

      • should we really be empowering 13 year olds to make their own informed choices about issues as volatile, and as potentially destructive, as drug use?

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        p>the ‘people’ you refer to can also be called by another name; ‘children’.

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        p>i suppose some parent(s) may consider it noble to give their 13 year old child the freedom of choice as to whether she wants to starting having sexual relationships or not. but i would consider that wildly irresponsible and misguided.

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        p>

    • I love stats that pronounce things like “97% of hard drugs users, smoked marijuana before using any other drugs.”

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      p>The stat that is not recorded is how many pot smokers don’t ever do any other drug.

      • As I think about it, both statistics would be difficult to get with useful precision.

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        p>Will otherwise straight-laced grandmas who smoke pot reveal that in surveys?

        • when my very religious fundie grandma was about 80, she pulled my mom aside and confessed that she sometimes “took a nip” from some apricot brandy she had squirreled away.  mind you, she only revealed this to mom, who she considered from the wrong side of the tracks.  she never dared tell either of her own children.  if answering a survey, she would have written “tea in totality”.

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          p>makes me wonder who her supplier was.  hmmm….

      • Milk is the real gateway drug.   Almost everyone who does hard drugs, had milk back when they were very young.

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